Compulsory Education

[Brandon]

Should school attendance be compelled?

[Perndog]

School, no. Education, yes. Parents should get to choose between shipping the kids off to the public (or private) diploma factory or teaching them at home, but they should be required to do one or the other.

[Vibecrewangel]

Around here co-ops are become very popular. Parents that get approved to homeschool are forming groups and teaching not only their own children, but the rest in the co-op as well. I've never seen such amazing children as the ones I see when I get the chance to help out.
I just wish that both public and private schools could do what these co-ops are doing.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

Home schooling in Alabama is much different....parents who are barely literate themselves are teaching their children because "GOD" has been taken out of the schools..... the word idiot doesn't these people justice. A lady I know home shools ther kids and there damn near retards...plus they have no social skills. It's really pathetic.

[Perndog]

So in a perfect world parents would have to submit an application to homeschool their kids and someone of at least basic intelligence would review them and keep the idiots from fucking up their offspring. In the real world, the kids with shitty parents probably don't have much hope whether they learn at home or in school, so there's not much that can be done short of taking the kids away entirely (and that's not an education issue).

[Brandon]

Is the government overstepping its bounds by playing nanny, though?

[Perndog]

No, the US government couldn't get away taking kids away from their parents unless they can bring a damn good case against the parents in court (and who's going to bring up the matter for investigation anyway). So as I said, kids of bad parents are probably screwed no matter what and it's not a matter of education. Unfortunate, really. It should be easy for the people in charge to declare parents unfit after a little bit of examination, and it should happen much more often. But it won't.

[AChimp]

Every kid who I ever knew that was home-schooled was a fucking retard. Hell, there were retards who were smarter than they were. I laughed and laughed and laughed when I saw a home-schooled guy struggling over some basic algebra in high school (apparently his parents thought that it would be good for him to get some exposure to the real system before university).

When you home school, you put your kids at a major disadvantage in almost every way.

[Perndog]

Only if you can't teach worth shit. Your experiences may say otherwise, but homeschooled students statistically do better than public school students in every area. There are two homeschoolers in the honors program at my college and both are ahead of most of our peers.

[AChimp]

What do you do for social interaction, though, hmm? Mommy, daddy and the TV. Every few weeks you go on a field trip to Grandma's. :rolleyes

Home-schooled kids are retarded. I have NEVER met one who was intelligent and/or a complete pompous asshole who thought they knew everything when they really didn't.

"It's nucleeeer not nucle-ar."

WTF. Fag.

[Perndog]

1) How many homeschooled students have you met?

2) What backwoods hick region were they from?

3) What makes you think homeschoolers never interact with people?

I have NEVER met one who was an idiot.

[Brandon]

The criticism that homeschooling produces ignoramuses with no sociability is baseless. I've met several homeschooled kids myself, and not only are they among the best students I've ever seen, but they show absolutely no deficiency in social skills.

[Big Papa Goat]

I've only ever known one home schooled kid and he was a lot like the one AChimp described. :/
Were you homeschooled Perndog? I only ask because you said "our peers".

[Perndog]

I meant our peers in college who fall behind the homeschooled students I know.

[AChimp]

1) How many homeschooled students have you met?

2) What backwoods hick region were they from?

3) What makes you think homeschoolers never interact with people?


1. About seven or eight, mostly in high school.

2. Canada

3. Because they don't.

[Perndog]

1. Not enough for an educated opinion.

2. There's your reason. :)

3. Bullshit. There were homeschooled kids on almost all of the sports teams at my high school, they were all very active with their church communities (wacko Christian families..sigh..), and by the time any of them were 15 they had jobs--brace yourself--in public, as lifeguards or camp counselors or whatever.

[Big Papa Goat]

bullshit, church activities, and whatever :rolleyes

[Emu]

Pretty much all the same thing.

[mesobe]

public school is important for building social skills. They go outside at recess and lunch to play with and fight eachother. and since sbout 99.9% of kids go to public school, it doesnt give the home-school kids very many people to interact with.

And if a kid *is* being home-schooled its because the parents live too far from a public school or they dont want their kids anywhere near a public school. Your going to spend your life having to interract with other human beings if you like it or not and you have to teach these skills. Home-schooling lacks this.

[Perndog]

Playground fights and childhood bonding at lunch time are hardly essentials for healthy development and social skills. Most of the really intelligent people I know were quite solitary as children.

And you really don't know what you're talking about if you think homeschoolers never interact with people. If you think homeschooled students are so socially deficient as to be unable to function in the real world, you're just retarded (there are exceptions but they are indeed EXCEPTIONS). They go to church. They participate in sports. They play with kids in the neighborhood. When they're a little older, they get jobs because they don't have to waste seven hours of every day in school and two more hours doing pointless busywork. What they do miss out on is high school culture with its shitty role models, idiotic teenage politics, trends, and everything else about it.

Oh yeah, they miss prom and homecoming, too. Woohoo. I know plenty of people who were *in* high school and skipped prom and homecoming and all those oh-so-important public school events.

[Brandon]

Oh yeah, they miss prom and homecoming, too. Woohoo. I know plenty of people who were *in* high school and skipped prom and homecoming and all those oh-so-important public school events.
Interestingly enough, some homeschooling networks throw proms and dances for their students.

Your going to spend your life having to interract with other human beings if you like it or not and you have to teach these skills. Home-schooling lacks this.
I've never seen any proof for the claim that homeschoolers end up socially deficient. It's just mindless rhetoric.

[mesobe]

Playground fights and childhood bonding at lunch time are hardly essentials for healthy development and social skills. Most of the really intelligent people I know were quite solitary as children.

your intelligence level is not determined by what sort of school you go to or if you like to be a loner or not. and yes, romping around the school yard *is* important social skills. so is working in a classroom with other students. Working on group projects and helping eachother out on their studies is prepping them for the workplace. Not to mention it will get them used to the idea of complete strangers telling them what to do.

I've never seen any proof for the claim that homeschoolers end up socially deficient. It's just mindless rhetoric.

and I doubt you have seen any proof otherwise too. If it was all figured out you wouldnt have started this thread in the form of a question.

[AChimp]

Children learn better by mingling and observing their peers than they do from authority figures. You can pick up any psychology textbook to read more about that.

Mom and dad are not peers.

[mesobe]

Children learn better by mingling and observing their peers than they do from authority figures. You can pick up any psychology textbook to read more about that.

Mom and dad are not peers.

and to add to this, mom and dad arnt people kids would normally use as mentors or role models. Children also have to learn that the world is much larger than the size of their back yards and they should be exposed to this at an early age.

[Brandon]

and I doubt you have seen any proof otherwise too. If it was all figured out you wouldnt have started this thread in the form of a question.
Check back a few posts, chumley:

I've met several homeschooled kids myself, and not only are they among the best students I've ever seen, but they show absolutely no deficiency in social skills.
So yeah, I have seen proof otherwise, dick.

[mesobe]

and Ive met a few kids who were home schooled as well. They are about the equivalent to Ned Flanders family.

"having met a few kids" is no grounds for a concrete theory man. Its hardly proof of anything. You are smarter than that.

[Brandon]

and Ive met a few kids who were home schooled as well. They are about the equivalent to Ned Flanders family.

"having met a few kids" is no grounds for a concrete theory man. Its hardly proof of anything. You are smarter than that.
Whoa, wait a minute. I never claimed to have a "concrete theory." I was just refuting the claim that homeschooling would produce adults with no social skills whatsoever. If I've met at least one homeschooler that wasn't socially deficient (and I already said I have), then the claim is false.

[mesobe]

well thats cool. You just seemed to be defending your viewpoint rather vigorously instead of having a discussion on the subject.

Ive only met about...3 kids home schooled and they were pretty pathetic. There has been a lot of debate in my town here over extending lunch breaks and such in schools because there are suggestions that the social aspect of lunch and recess are being overlooked.

If the social aspect of school *really* is important, how does a home schooled kid get that kind of exposure too?

[Perndog]

your intelligence level is not determined by what sort of school you go to or if you like to be a loner or not. and yes, romping around the school yard *is* important social skills. so is working in a classroom with other students. Working on group projects and helping eachother out on their studies is prepping them for the workplace. Not to mention it will get them used to the idea of complete strangers telling them what to do.

Oh yeah, I forgot. We're supposed to teach all children that they're destined to be working stiffs and to be able to bend over and take it from their bosses. What a crock. And that's how it works in school, too. "I'm the teacher, you do what I say and don't fight it," becomes "I'm the boss, you do what I say and don't fight it." Keeping a child out of school provides a professional advantage I like to call INDEPENDENCE. Sure, it's not helpful for the future middle managers and cubicle warriors of America, but I've never met a homeschooler who aspired to a job like that or held one for more than a transitory period. Most of them have worthwhile goals.

Ive only met about...3 kids home schooled

"having met a few kids" is no grounds for a concrete theory man

Read: "I have next to no evidence for what I'm saying and I have explicitly admitted this."

If the social aspect of school *really* is important, how does a home schooled kid get that kind of exposure too?

I personally place a very low value on social interaction. I am exceedingly antisocial myself yet I keep up excellent professional relationships and get along plenty well wherever I go.

Furthermore, school is a poor model for the social activities of everyday life. School doesn't teach a kid how to go shopping, how to meet business associates/clients/employers (a job interview is different from any experience you'll have with a school teacher).

But to address your question directly: I fucking hate repeating myself.

PLAYING WITH KIDS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. Contrary to popular belief, a child's life is not limited to his time in school. Introduce the kids before they start school and they can very well still interact years later even if one goes to public school and another doesn't. Even better if there are several homeschoolers in one neighborhood.

GOING TO CHURCH. Not my kind of place, but social nonetheless.

PARTICIPATING IN COMMUNITY SPORTS OR PUBLIC SCHOOL SPORTS. Public schools are generally pretty accomodating for this sort of thing.

GETTING JOBS. mesobe says : "Gee, I wonder if working experience has any relevance to real life? Though even if the kid manages to keep a job at 16 years old he's obviously not going to survive later on if he didn't go to public school."

Children learn better by mingling and observing their peers than they do from authority figures. You can pick up any psychology textbook to read more about that.

We have a name for a person who has the utmost faith in textbooks, especially textbooks in soft sciences like psychology and economics. It's The One and Only.

You expose a child more to his peers than to real role models and you know what you get? A child who wants to be like his peers, which is a sad thing. George Carlin said it best: children are like any kind of people: there are a few winners and a whole lot of losers. I wouldn't want my son or daughter's primary source of social interaction to be with the crowd of losers that is bound to inhabit a school (public or private).

EDIT: To put some credence behind my claims, I wrote a paper on the relative merits of public and home education last year, and to research for it I hunted down dozens of homeschooled students (I took the public school things from my own experience). The director of the honors program at my college homeschooled his children, and both are now college students with well above average GPAs and healthy social lives. The closest things to idiots I found in my search were a couple of brain dead Jehovah's Witnesses, and that is an indictment of their parents and their religion rather than of the method of their education.

[Emu]

I've never met a homeschooled kid, because that kind of thing is next to an unwritten illegality around here, but I can tell you that all the kids in public school I've met are some of the most maladjusted fucks I've ever had the displeasure of being around. :(

[Anonymouse]

Fuck government education. Homeschooling all the way.