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| Mar 9th, 2007 11:31 PM | |||||
| Gabby GaGa |
kahl "so if disfigurements are evil, does that mean whatever caused the disfigurement is evil? Quote:
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so that you don't make an ass of yourself. Quote:
Killing of your own species is a form of suicide. Suicide is a contradiction of biology because biology's sole perpose is to continue life. God himself is a description of morality. |
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| Mar 9th, 2007 05:43 PM | |||||
| Emu | Yeah but then you get into the debate about whether God created morality (and morality is therefore arbitrary) or whether god obeys a pre-existing morality and therefore god is not omnipotent and something existed before god and where did that come from and where are my keys | ||||
| Mar 9th, 2007 04:19 PM | |||||
| kahljorn |
yea but somebody who says they are moral because of god would also say morality exists because of god ;o I don't even want to talk philosophy with gabbygaga around she might be using it for her book or something. |
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| Mar 9th, 2007 03:04 PM | |||||
| Emu |
Yes, because they're essentially saying that in the absence of God they would be immoral assholes who would rape and pillage on a whim. You know who to avoid depending on their answer to the question "Would you be moral without god?" By the way GabbyGaGa or whatever by your reasoning if going against biology is evil then it's morally justifiable to kill someone who isn't of your extended family/tribe. |
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| Mar 9th, 2007 02:09 PM | |||||
| kahljorn |
do you guys think it's immoral when people place their ability to be moral entirely in the hands of god? Such as people who say morality can't exist without god, or can't exist outside the church? I kind of do. |
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| Mar 9th, 2007 01:58 PM | |||||
| kahljorn |
thanks emu that was going to be my response... so if disfigurements are evil, does that mean whatever caused the disfigurement is evil? Bad genes? A rock they fell on? Bad diet? Some other unconscious-able thing? Any act that goes against biology would make... a lot of things evil. honestly so far there hasn't been a good answer to that question. anyway... I'm not going to repeat myself to gagagofuck since we've already gone over Nietzsche pretty much in entirety. |
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| Mar 9th, 2007 10:20 AM | |||||
| Emu | Murder, homosexuality and disfigurement are actually quite in line with "biology." Animals of all kinds regularly murder eachother, even members of their own species, and a goodly number of "higher" animals have been seen to engage in vigorous homosexual activity. I would direct you to the bonobo. | ||||
| Mar 9th, 2007 03:19 AM | |||||
| Gabby GaGa |
what is evil about killing out of boredom? I'm just curious because I've been asking what evil was because you know I'm just wondering... Quite honestly, nothing. Dont jump to conclusions just yet. Evil is simply a word to describe any deviouse act that doesn't fit in with societies standards. Evil, in my opinion, seems to be a term used to describe any act that goes against biology. Homosexuality, murder, and even disfigurments. (remember in the middle ages, when a simple bilogical disfiguremnt was often concidered to be a work of the devil?) So this unnatural act, described as evil, seems to be an observed biological deviance. However, there are varying degrees of evil. There's a pshycologist, his name escapes me at the moment, who developed a scale of evil. There are 22 levels, each incremental number more evil then the last. Level 1 murders are "the least evil": (those that are mentally diseased, and don't know any better) level 22 is reserved for the coldest murderers. These are the people who go against their biology entierly. Homicide is a perversion of biology. Biology glitch = social notion of evil. Im too tired to read through this. |
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| Mar 9th, 2007 03:03 AM | |||||
| kahljorn | i was going to start talking about existentialism and how "Choice" and "Freedom" aren't a solice but now i feel dirty and ashamed ;( | ||||
| Mar 9th, 2007 02:55 AM | |||||
| kahljorn |
"So yes, chalk (or god) could exist, but only because we have a notion of him. An idea or notion is created out of collective experiances, one of which is comparison. (good and evil)" I see what you're saying basically what i said but the entire point of god is that he exists before our experiences. what is evil about killing out of boredom? I'm just curious because I've been asking what evil was because you know I'm just wondering... Nietzsche I don't think actually PROVED anything about god. |
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| Mar 9th, 2007 02:34 AM | |||||
| Gabby GaGa |
Matt: Quote:
Just kidding. The only reason you know what chalk is is because you've been told. (thats not a zing. Let me explain) We only know what god is, or what his standards are, because we've been told. So yes, chalk (or god) could exist, but only because we have a notion of him. An idea or notion is created out of collective experiances, one of which is comparison. (good and evil) this is all reptitive on my part, of course. Nietzche already proved that God and human morality are dependent on each other. Quote:
If she covered everything, why don't you ENLIGHTEN us. Open our poor stupid minds. Quote:
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That child is expressing either pure stupidity, or a misconception. Stupid people I can feel sorry for, Like Ed Gein. They're like drug addicts, and just need understanding, and hopefully treatment, as Kahl pointed out. My second point was misconception. Misconception can fall into both the catagories of enviroment and mental disease. Enviroment is a template that pre-designates a persons so-called "free will" that enviroment will permanently engrave a persons mind to function in a certain way. Mental disease is the next catagory. This one is more difficult, because it's sometimes impossible to draw the line between misconception and and mental disease. Yes, this is more a question of biology. So, is the deviant person evil because of misconception, which is really a skewed vision of a logical or moral idea, or is he evil because of a biological (chemical or nurological) flaw? If bilogical, then that does indeed mean that some people are predestined to commiting evil acts. If the subject has a misconcieved idea, then that means a skewed view was introduced somewhere (family, community, or school), in which case fault lies with the society. For all others, those who's upbringing was normal, and the person never experianced any trauma, those people are plain evil. They probably commit their acts out of boredom, because they always had a "straight-line" life. No ups or downs. Oh yeah, to answer your question, about why god allows suffering and illness, etc. Because we need to go through the suffering in order to learn. |
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| Mar 9th, 2007 12:26 AM | |||||
| kahljorn |
wanting a benevolent god is also self-interested for a couple of reasons: "Oh man gods good and he loves us specifically so hes gonna hook us up with a cool life yo" "If we pray to god he will bless us" "god has a plan for the universe" "Our life has meaning" and also because without a benevolent god is undermines our whole conception of striving to be good. When we call something god we are basically saying, "These are our ideals". Without god, to some people, there are no ideals. stuff like that. Without a god most of those become meaningless, as far as they are based on god. |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:55 PM | |||||
| MattJack |
It's fine, he can be cool all he wants. He posts WAY more than me in this forum, so Imma fag up all of his threads as well  . Just let the libertarian, wait, he changed flavors already, I mean the greenindirepublicrat talk to himself.
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:52 PM | |||||
| kahljorn | i discussed evil in terms of something other than human. or at least laid the path to talk about it. | ||||
| Mar 8th, 2007 11:51 PM | |||||
| kahljorn |
you mean metaphysical? because that's not economic or political in nature. like i said THE ONLY WAY you could say that is if that so you're only refuting your own argument sassy pants. |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:50 PM | |||||
| Preechr |
...and where have you discussed evil in terms of something other than human nature up in here.... not that I have read it... so I am possibly, though not likely, setting myself up for contradiction here, though I don't think it really matters, since I have set this whole stage for me being asleep right now... ...and I am closing my Firefox window now, so don't expect anymore sunshine on this forum for a bit... |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:46 PM | |||||
| Preechr |
www.dictionary.com ...look up philosophy, and see if you see anything that might lead you to believe it has anything to do with something other than human nature... ...SNORE... |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:46 PM | |||||
| kahljorn |
more faggot talk, just like ann coulter  what was that mmm yeah thing preechr you should stop thinking of young men having sex together that's disgusting. |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:45 PM | |||||
| kahljorn |
yea maybe but if i say anything else preechr will go I SENT YOU THAT BOOK or something anyway making an argument that god isnt benevolent is pretty easy. like i said anybody can look in the bible and find god not being benevolent and being uninterested in human life or human perfection. you should read chapter three of genesis though since it deals with how god feels about man achieving "Perfection". |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:42 PM | |||||
| Preechr |
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...mmm... Yeah.... |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:41 PM | |||||
| kahljorn |
that's not true. the only way it could be true you might as well say everything that has ever been subject to philosophical debate has been human nature |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:41 PM | |||||
| Preechr | ...nevermind... you two fags deserve one another... | ||||
| Mar 8th, 2007 11:39 PM | |||||
| MattJack |
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Scientists figured out why cats play with their food. They say it's because they are complete badasses. I think we as humans could most def prevent a lot of wars if we eliminated the human greed factor and adopted in its place a tolerance/understanding factor. Once again, man falls victim to evil through greed and intolerance. I don't think dying is evil at all, just a piece that completes your life cycle so to speak. I think dying untimely because you got a knife in the back due to some asshole that wanted your land, is evil. Death in itself is not evil, rather just the end of a cycle. I think it is perfectly fine and a very human quality to fear death. What creature doesn't want to live besides that emo kid in your high school that just broke up with his g/f? Some of it probably does have to do with one's ego though, which I feel is acceptable. As far as food, God could provide that, no? Well even if he decided not to, men would have a underlying moral code to make sure everyone has enough. It would basically be a Socialist's paradise(which btw that isn't my politics, don't get it twisted) in the fact that everyone would be equal. Man would understand this and adhere to it without a second thought. |
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| Mar 8th, 2007 11:39 PM | |||||
| Preechr | ...though everything that has ever been subject to philosophical debate has been political and/or economic in nature.... | ||||
| Mar 8th, 2007 11:37 PM | |||||
| Preechr |
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