I-Mockery Forum - PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE

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- - PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE (http://i-mockery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14179)

ROFL...

Just posted to my board:

sorry, but shit shitty shit like that is why I don't read your board anymore. :/

I really need to get a photo of me clearing brush or something, that way, I can still be a complete jackass, yet be "in touch with mainstream America."

What a load of poop.

You are not alone. The vast majority of people do not read my board, and most of those for less considered reasons than yours.

We will miss your uninterested glances. ;)

I'll probably hang out here long enough to make sure you don't miss much.

Wait wait wait wait wait... your board was taken down?

No, no...
It's still there.

I dunno, same with the newsfilter board, I guess. You have so many folks who talk about "liberal media bias," and there's a lot of good talk about "looking at things objectively, on the issues."

And then you see anti-Kerry arguments that look as if they were plagarized off of GOP press advisories. I have nothing personally invested in John Kerry the man. He's disconnected from real people, he's arrogant, he's a true blue blood. With that said, the arguments AGAINST him have only pushed me closer to his camp.

I'm not an ABB guy. I actually like certain things about the Kerry platform, which I've come to terms with on my own, not via the Fox News equivolents.

Yet you aren't so interested in pounding your point of view into the skulls of those that differ with you. You don't roam the internet picking fights with partisans...

I just don't get that...

Missed me by 4 years. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preechr

The winner of this debate is the one that had the best polling numbers afterward. Is Kerry ahead now? No? Then he failed. He lost.

Will more of the undecideds watch the next two debates? Doubtful. The only hope Kerry has left, barring some monumental event happening in the next month that "changes everything," is that so-called "independents" tend to vote liberal. I still don't think that's enough.

According to Newsweek Kerry is now ahead at 49% with the Moron at 46% and the Los Angeles Times is also has Kerry at 49% with the Moron at 47%.

The Debates, Real and Predicted

by Anthony Gregory

In my most recent article, "An Honest Debate Between Bush and Kerry," I tried to go quickly through all the issues, laying out how the two candidates would speak if they were more up front about why they were saying what they were saying. From the looks of the national security "debate" last night, the two candidates read my article and drew much from it, though they changed a few words around a bit to keep from being too honest. Here are some excerpts of what they really said, and what I predicted they might.

Kerry (real): I'll never give a veto to any country over our security. But I also know how to lead those alliances. This president has left them in shatters across the globe, and we're now 90 percent of the casualties in Iraq and 90 percent of the costs.

Kerry (predicted): Do we want to recklessly go to war, without international coalitions and diplomatic tact? Or do we want a president who knows how to get the French and the Germans in on the killing? More than one thousand Americans have died in the Iraq war. I would have made sure that at least five hundred of them were foreigners instead.

Bush (real): September the 11th changed how America must look at the world. And since that day, our nation has been on a multi-pronged strategy to keep our country safer.

Bush (predicted): America was attacked on September 11, 2001, and we must not forget how we felt on that day, when we decided it was time to unite behind me. The very security of my job depends on it. In response to September the 11th, I enacted strong laws that the federal government wanted to impose but never before had an excuse to. I took us to war in the Middle East.

Kerry (Real): Two-thirds of the country was a no-fly zone when we started this war. We would have had sanctions. We would have had the U.N. inspectors. Saddam Hussein would have been continually weakening. If the president had shown the patience to go through another round of resolution, to sit down with those leaders, say, "What do you need, what do you need now, how much more will it take to get you to join us?" we'd be in a stronger place today.

Kerry (predicted): I want to return to the old-fashioned ways of American empire, before Mr. Cowboy here ruined it all by waging war without a UN seal of approval. The UN was designed to make global hegemony more palatable to the world’s peoples. I say we use it.

Bush (Real): That's why it's essential that we make sure that we keep weapons of mass destruction out of the hands of people like Al Qaida.

Bush (Predicted): I took us to war in the Middle East, invading two countries and killing thousands of people who got in the way, including terrorists. Terrorists like al Qaeda.

Kerry (Real): The president always has the right, and always has had the right, for preemptive strike. That was a great doctrine throughout the Cold War. And it was always one of the things we argued about with respect to arms control. No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America. But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons. Here we have our own secretary of state who has had to apologize to the world for the presentation he made to the United Nations. I mean, we can remember when President Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis sent his secretary of state to Paris to meet with DeGaulle. And in the middle of the discussion, to tell them about the missiles in Cuba, he said, "Here, let me show you the photos." And DeGaulle waved them off and said, "No, no, no, no. The word of the president of the United States is good enough for me."

Kerry (Predicted): I wholeheartedly endorse Bush’s usurpation of power in the office of the presidency – I admire that office, and want it myself. But we’ve already done Iraq. Let’s go to Africa, I say! The real implication of the president’s mismanagement of Iraq is that it will be harder to conquer more countries now, especially with him in charge. We’ve lost our credibility to conquer. Elect me, and I can convince the world that American imperium is back the way it used to be in the good old days, under Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton.

Bush (Real): But to say that there's only one focus on the war on terror doesn't really understand the nature of the war on terror. Of course we're after Saddam Hussein -- I mean bin Laden. He's isolated. Seventy-five percent of his people have been brought to justice. The killer -- the mastermind of the September 11th attacks, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, is in prison.

Bush (Predicted): And let us not forget 9/11. When you’re thinking that Iraq is a little harder than we all expected, and good Americans are gallantly giving their lives up there everyday, just remember that Saddam Hussein was a dictator, and 9/11 was the worst day in America’s history. Saddam and 9/11. Remember those two. xxxx tells me that if Americans put those two together, they’ll conclude that I’m the man to vote for.

Kerry (real): I have no intention of wilting. I've never wilted in my life. And I've never wavered in my life. I know exactly what we need to do in Iraq, and my position has been consistent: Saddam Hussein is a threat. He needed to be disarmed. We needed to go to the U.N. The president needed the authority to use force in order to be able to get him to do something, because he never did it without the threat of force.

Kerry (predicted): I think this man has done everything wrong in Iraq. He didn’t get the coalition he needed to wage the war in a more politically popular manner. He didn’t reach across the negotiation table, and reach out to other countries. He should have sought diplomatic solutions, and the reason I voted for the resolution was because it was ambiguously worded and I knew I could weasel my way out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preechr

snip snip snip
I'm sorry to be sitting here calling you a tool, but that's what you are being. I like you, so I hope that doesn't piss you off.

The thing is, I honestly agree with most of what you are saying. I'd be voting for an alternative party myself if I didn't think voting for the only person besides Bush who has a chance (regardless of how conservative or useless he might be) was more important.

I don't care much who you vote for. I'm not going to hold it against you, obviously, that would be stupid. But still, to me it's more important to put my vote towards making sure Kerry wins.

I do however think it's funny that I'm having essentially the same debate in two different threads.

I bet the next topic of debate will be homeland security, since they barely talked about it in this last one. And then it'll be "Coke vs. Pepsi."

That picture of Bush toting lumber with the caption "All that is MAN" is hilarious

Bush should make that his new campaign slogan, and use that picture too.

he would win by a 10% margin for sure.

Can we have the Chevy jingle, "Like a Rock" playing in the background? That would rule.

Perfect!

Why hasnt the bush campaign hired us yet? >:

BUSH HAD A LITTLE HELP IN THE DEBATE

http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/10/1697371.php

Quote:

Bush Blows Debate: Talks to Rove in Earpiece!

During the Presidential Debate Bush made what may be his most costly error- he exposed that he’s using an earpiece to help him answer debate questions. In the middle of an answer bush said, "now let me finish" as if someone was interrupting him - yet nobody did - he was talking to the person in his earpiece.

found the transcript on c-span. was the part of the debate i missed on tv. someone needs to watch the debate again and make sure for me that this isn't bull shit...

Quote:

LEHRER: New question. Senator Kerry, two minutes. You just -- you've repeatedly accused President Bush -- not here tonight, but elsewhere before -- of not telling the truth about Iraq, essentially of lying to the American people about Iraq. Give us some examples of what you consider to be his not telling the truth.

KERRY: Well, I've never, ever used the harshest word, as you did just then. And I try not to. I've been -- but I'll nevertheless tell you that I think he has not been candid with the American people. And I'll tell you exactly how.

First of all, we all know that in his state of the union message, he told Congress about nuclear materials that didn't exist.

We know that he promised America that he was going to build this coalition. I just described the coalition. It is not the kind of coalition we were described when we were talking about voting for this.

The president said he would exhaust the remedies of the United Nations and go through that full process. He didn't. He cut if off, sort of arbitrarily.

And we know that there were further diplomatic efforts under way. They just decided the time for diplomacy is over and rushed to war without planning for what happens afterwards.

Now, he misled the American people in his speech when he said we will plan carefully. They obviously didn't. He misled the American people when he said we'd go to war as a last resort. We did not go as a last resort. And most Americans know the difference.

Now, this has cost us deeply in the world. I believe that it is important to tell the truth to the American people. I've worked with those leaders the president talks about, I've worked with them for 20 years, for longer than this president. And I know what many of them say today, and I know how to bring them back to the table.

And I believe that a fresh start, new credibility, a president who can understand what we have to do to reach out to the Muslim world to make it clear that this is not, you know -- Osama bin Laden uses the invasion of Iraq in order to go out to people and say that America has declared war on Islam.

We need to be smarter about now we wage a war on terror. We need to deny them the recruits. We need to deny them the safe havens. We need to rebuild our alliances.

I believe that Ronald Reagan, John Kennedy, and the others did that more effectively, and I'm going to try to follow in their footsteps.

LEHRER: Ninety seconds, Mr. President.

BUSH: My opponent just said something amazing. He said Osama bin Laden uses the invasion of Iraq as an excuse to spread hatred for America. Osama bin Laden isn't going to determine how we defend ourselves.

Osama bin Laden doesn't get to decide. The American people decide.

I decided the right action was in Iraq. My opponent calls it a mistake. It wasn't a mistake.

He said I misled on Iraq. I don't think he was misleading when he called Iraq a grave threat in the fall of 2002.

I don't think he was misleading when he said that it was right to disarm Iraq in the spring of 2003.

I don't think he misled you when he said that, you know, anyone who doubted whether the world was better off without Saddam Hussein in power didn't have the judgment to be president. I don't think he was misleading.

I think what is misleading is to say you can lead and succeed in Iraq if you keep changing your positions on this war. And he has. As the politics change, his positions change. And that's not how a commander in chief acts.

Let me finish.

The intelligence I looked at was the same intelligence my opponent looked at, the very same intelligence. And when I stood up there and spoke to the Congress, I was speaking off the same intelligence he looked at to make his decisions to support the authorization of force.

They've got videos and audio files of the "now let me finish" part... I didn't see that part of the debate, but it does seem kinda strange to me. Bush might just be crazy, or he could have been using an earpiece.

they have the video at the c-span site, but websatan wont let me download any video or mp3's or anything. and my comp at home has no sound, so i cant check it at all...
:(

wasnt he just talking to the moderator, who may have been waving him to stop or something... ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AChimp

:/ - I did watch the whole debate and I then thought he was speaking to the moderator because he was looking towards the camera and him. That said, though there was plenty of time left and no one spoke before, the moderator may have signalled that he's ready to move on to another damning question.

:/ - I have seen someone using an earpiece live on stage and they're forced to pause frequently unlike the Moron who spoke at a steady pace pretty much throughout. I figure if he was using an earpiece it was being used only when Kerry was speaking (eg. hard work, wrong war, wrong place, wrong time, bad! and don't pick your nose!!!).

I agree... Bush can't even keep his own thoughts straight enough to make it through an entire sentence without flubbing something. Having to deal with third-party voices in there among the echoes would have probably locked him up completely.

It would have been too big a risk to take.

Now, if somebody wants to suggest that the thing we saw up there was actually an android being remotely controlled by Karl Rove, I might buy that...

Bush had a VERY important thing to say...

"Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time"

...over and over and over again.

It's interesting that he's so hung up on mixed messages when he said during his senate term "Yeah, I'm not so sure it's the role of the United States to go around the world and say 'this is the way it's gotta be'," "If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. I think one way for us to end up being viewed as the 'ugly American' is for us to go around the world saying 'we do it this way, so should you'," and "I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called 'Nation Building.'" It's somewhat baffling to me that Kerry & Co. aren't bringing this up as a direct response to Bush's claims.