Basically it was a NES game with upgraded graphics and clumsy design, and didn't have the storybook feel I love from the later games or the ballsy gameplay in the first two.

Link's Awakening was more or less a scaled down version of Link To The Past.

Except better

If by better you mean here's an annoying interrupting owl getting in your grill while you try to play, then yes!

LINK!!!!! LISTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what's clumsy about LTTP's design?

i think it's one of the most solid games ever made, and i think pretty much every other zelda game was designed by a drunken lemur

The levels in that game are horrible pieces of shit, especially after you get to the dark world

"Shit man I can't think of anything clever to put so I guess we'll just have 5000 rooms where the floor tiles float up and attack you. Then maybe some keyhunting and aimless wandering in a roundabout for about 30 years to balance it out. Super pro puzzles!"

I also hate the way combat feels. All of the enemies just sort of bounce off your sword like they're made of rubber and make that pathetic low-fi 16-bit scratch noise. I like the music in the game, but the sound effects just downright bother me with how limpwristed and shitty they are. This might be nit-picking, but fuck you, I hate it.

Basically I hate LttP because it's the same game as Zelda 1, only horribly shitty and boring. I can accept people liking it, but I don't know how the fuck anyone thinks it's the best Zelda. Not even close.

I don't think there is a single flaw in link to the past.

I do, it's that it sucks

sounds like its more of a user error.

Boom. LttP is a fucking masterpiece. Anyone who thinks there's nothing more to the dungeons and temples than floating tiles probably hasn't even played it for more than a few minutes--that, or they're some dickwad, hipster-wannabe contrarian who just has to chime in with logical arguments like "it sucks."

I've beaten it twice, actually. I already outlined my reasons for not liking it the last time we talked about this, and I just summarized them. I could go into explicit detail again but I know none of you are going to read it.

I read everything you write gw. Ever infuriating word.

:D

The internet is teeming with them >:

The thing is, and GW kind of touched on this in the whole "but I know none of you are going to read it" thing, nobody wants to hear your reasons why a game that 95% of the gaming world thinks is a masterpiece is in your opinion, a turd. When 95% of people think it is awesome, and you are in that little minority, you are simply wrong. I am sure we all have a game we dislike that 95% of the gaming world thinks we are wrong for disliking, and in those cases, they are right, but we soldier on and keep it to ourselves. There are a few important reasons for this.

1) Nobody really cares what we think
2) There is probably a logical reason we hate it that makes real sense, i.e. we never really had time to play it enough, a small insignificant flaw pissed us off, it raped us when we were 5, and so on
3) Why do we need to shit in 95% of the gaming populaces' cornflakes? Let them enjoy it and we can go on not enjoying it.

I can give a good example of one I used to hate that it seemed everyone else loved, and why I was wrong. The Guitar Hero series. I was one of those "you aren't playing a real guitar" assholes. I saw the negative stories of people who play it all day and never work. It was enough for me to say, 'everyone else is wrong, Guitar Hero sucks". I had never actually played it, and I felt by watching a couple videos of it I had all the experience I needed. Then I snagged a new copy with the guitar controller on the cheap and gave it a shot. I played it while my brother made fun of me and I laughed so hard at his jokes, my messups on songs, and I found myself actually having fun. Turns out I held an opinion that was misinformed and wrong

Subjective

You also have to remember that 95% of people are idiots

Ok, but I formed this opinion after playing LttP multiple times. I didn't just decide to hate it out of the blue one day. The hate grew inside of me after I had time to digest the game, like the miracle of life.

I don't know about that. If the majority says a game is good then a contrary voice will be more interesting then more of the same. That's the attraction of being contrarion. By the way I didn't really like lttp either, but I then I don't like any of the old Zeldas.

You and GW can get together and make LttP hate babies then

And it isn't subjective when rock solid numbers support something GW, that is actually the polar opposite of subjective.

Here's an example of a subjective statement though:
"This sucks because I don't like it".
No facts, no reasons, just emotion.

Now, here's an example of a non subjective statement
"Game x is a good game, it is good because 95% of people who have played it have liked it"
See that? There's numbers supporting a statement.

Furthermore, I don't believe for a moment that you played LttP 2 times through, or even one time through. If you really played it twice through and it took you that long to decide it was bad, you are simply an idiot who takes way too long to figure out anything. Do you stick your hand in fire and take two weeks to decide it burns? I submit you are either an idiot, or a liar

People keep getting on you about it because your reasons are dumb.

1. You don't like the sound effects.
2. There were a couple flying tile rooms that pissed you off.
3. It's just like the first game, but without the "ballsy gameplay".

How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when that's the reasoning behind your hatin'?

>shit puzzles
>shit level design
>boring, samey visuals
>shitty, unsatisfying combat
>shit sound effects
>fucking keyhunts and aimless wandering
>essentially a NES game with beefed up graphics
>just like Zelda 1 except without any decent puzzles or challenge
>boring

How about we stop talking about LttP and start talking about Majora's Mask, a much better game

95% is a big number but it's still just a bunch of opinions, which are by definition subjective. Even if 100% thought well of lttp I'm not sure even that would qualify it as being objectively good. I don't think what makes a game "good" is defined well enough that you can apply it and then prove it objectively true.

Anyways, we all know the game is popular (you can probably prove that as an objective fact) but that doesn't mean it's flawless. I say, objectively, that I did not like lttp and I also say, objectively, that I value my own opinion over the opinion of 95% of some hypothetical demographic.

I'M reading what you're writing, GW, and everyone else is pretty much dissecting it.

Here's something I understand. If you don't have fun playing the 2d zeldas, of course you're not going to like lttp.

I'm not going to argue in favor of it, but I'm loving this argument. Why are the puzzles in LttP inferior to zelda one and two...?

or even a monochrome scaled down 8bit handheld version?

Because last I checked, video games are a business. The people who make them are in it to make money. That majority of the player base like the game, spend their money, make a huge profit, so the game becomes, say it with me now, a S U C C E S S.

All GW has given us is a list of "I don't like x's" but that is not tangible evidence that a game is bad, it is just a series of opinions from someone that wants to dislike. Key word there, 'wants'.

I find people who want to dislike something just to be 'different' to be hilarious. I also find them to be somewhat cowardly and hypocritical. If you want to be different, go all the freaking way. Don't just hate things everyone loves, declare you love things everyone hates. Join the neo nazis, watch Sandra Prill videos, buy a copy of Ishtar, get the game ET for Atari 2600 and play it nonstop. Of course none of them do, so in the end their opinions are laughable, empty, and meaningless because half measures get you nowhere.

While we are at it, the internet is pretty popular, aren't you being a conformist by using it?

That would be consistent though WR, we can't have that.

Yes the most hilarious, and gossamer part of the whole "I hate Lttp" is the followup statement "but I love Links Awakening"

That is like saying I hate spaghetti with meat sauce, but I love linguini with meat sauce. Inconsistent and confusing at best.