I thought nasa wasn't part of the military.

Or is that what they WANTED me to think? :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek

fuck, you are probley right, because look how i spell probley...
:/

Keep in mind though, the 3000 a year we spend at U of M is what most people spend on books at a real university. Some people can't afford 15,000 a year in student debt.

If you're a supergenius you can go into the nasa program through the airforce. But then again, nasa is not really getting to send up people these days.

People will make it seem like the military is the greatest thing in the world, others have other opinions, but when it comes down to it you have to make your own decision. You have to be on the lookout for bullshit.

And the military loves that pink hair shit :lol

Have you thought about the Coast Guard? Sure, it crappy, but the GI bill applies to ever service. And last I checked, they don't go crazy like that in the CG. (not so much with the Navy either... mostly the Army and Marines)

I've heard enough horror stories about the military to never even think about enlisting. DJ Potatoe was in the navy in boot camp and managed to get out on account of his knee surgery and documented bipolar disorder from when he was a tempestous youth, but really, it's way worse than you probably think it is, and in the long run doesn't pay as well as it really should. At the camp Potatoe went to, they'd raise a black flag every other week, for each new recruit that commit suicide. You'll get less than 4 hours of sleep a night 6 days a week for about 6 months (sundays is something-holiday, i forget the queer navy term for it. you get about 6 hours sleep. though it's evened out by you getting 0-2 hours of sleep on some nights). That is also your only day on which you can talk to other boot camp members, which is done while you shine your boots. If you somehow manage to escape and go AWOL, it goes on your permanent record as a federal offense and you'll never be able to get a job anywhere that checks your history. If you fuck up (assuming you're in navy boot camp), you'll get sent to train with the Marines. It'll be the worst experience of your entire life, assuming you live through it. Then, you get to visit warzones in foreign countries and get shot at! Good luck!

Although? I hear the food there isn't too bad.

Did you ever notice this radical change in the way the country thinks about military service? It used to be "serve your country because it's the right thing to do," now it's "join the army because we'll pay your way through school, and you'll have supar fun adventers in Euroland or Asianplace but most likely Desertworld, but you owe us your life until someone shoots you."

been that way since vietnam

That's a huge pile of horse shit, Chojin. But it was very entertaining. My coworkers gathered around and had a good laugh.
Why is it that when it comes to military matters, civilians insist on listening to the accounts of other civilians? Let me tell you how it goes.

THE ADVENTURES OF DJ POTATO IN NAVY BOOT CAMP!
Listen as we recite DJ Potato's amazing, heartfelt account of the trials he faced in Navy boot camp!


Since day one the Drill Chief's encouraged him and his fellow recruits to commit suicide! "You're only an asset to the military if you're dead!" they would shout in his ear. The recruits were told suicide was the only way out and when they did finally end it all, the Navy flew a black flag in celebration of their deaths!


"HAHA! Yes!" the Drill Chief's would shout. "Our assets are killing themselves off, one by one! Our plan of world domination ensues! GO FLY THE BLACK FLAG, BUT NOT AS A SIGN OF MOURNING AND RESPECT - DO IT AS A HYSTERICAL JEST AT THE FARCE THAT WAS THEIR LIFE! MWAHAHAHA! BECAUSE WE ARE EVIL PEOPLE WHO LAUGH AT YOUR DEATH! AHAAHAH! NOW KEEP JUMPING, MY LITTLE RECRUIT BITCHES! I'LL KILL YOU ALL IN TIME!"


The Navy was hiding DJ Pototo's mail. His mother sent him a box of cookies and a carton of cigarettes. As punishment, the Drill Chief's forced him to eat the cigarettes, smoke the cookies, then he was forced to do push-ups and eat entire mounds of recruit feces!


DJ Potato knew he couldn't continue this harsh regimen of becoming physically fit and emotionally dependent. He only got 6 hours of sleep a night. Some nights his fellow recruits would sneak up on him in the middle of the night and hit him with bars of soap wound tightly in pillow cases. It hurt his body so much, but it hurt his feelings even more!


He was psychosomatically slain and forced to not talk for hours on end! So far his one-week tenure of inhumanity brought him to the verge of death! HE WAS SLOWLY TURNING IN TO A FEDERAL BABY KILLING ROBOT!


BUT WAIT! Our feeble hero found a way out of the madness! "I'll pretend I'm psycho and they'll force me out!” IT WORKED! NO MORE SUICIDES! NO MORE PILLOW BITING! I CAN GO BACK TO LIVING FREE! "Can I keep the clothes? This pea coat is kinda' cool."

Well, yeah, that's pretty much it really. That's ultimately what you're signing up for regardless of your own personal interests. You're not necessarily signing away your soul but you are signing away your coporeal self, take it or leave it.

I may be a civilian, but I know that chojin is grossly misinformed.

I'm not much better off, because all I know is what my recruiter and told me about boot camp (and they like to jazz it up a bit) and what my vietnam-era dad told me about his boot camp where a drill sergeant could beat the shit out of you if he didn't like how you looked.

The point of boot camp is not to break you down into a mindless ball of putty, it is to teach you that you are the nail and they can be the hammer, that you're gonna have to do it their way. That means being organized, timely, respectful etc etc.

So, would you like to tell me about what part of it was wrong?

I never said the black flag wasn't a sign of respect. The whole point is, suicides occur frequently. The whole point of boot camp is to 'break you', and depriving people of sleep is a successful way to go about that.

I heard about it from a civilian who was in boot camp. It's not like he didn't go. It's on his record, he was medically discharged, he can't ever go back. I knew you were going to jump all over me, but how about pointing out where the differences in the boot camp you went to and the one Potatoe went to? Your post was funny and all, but someone's about to make a life decision on this, and I'd rather educate them than be hilarious.

My entire point is that there are plenty of trials you have to pass, some of which seem unreasonable to subject on someone who just wants to go to school. Only go into the military if that's what you want to do as a career. Don't do it if you really want to do something else, because it will require a certain dedication to pull through it.

"Or so I hear." You know, I've never professionally battled with Brazilian Ju-Jitsu either, but I hear enough about it from my friend that loves it to stay the fuck away from no-holds-barred fighting. If you ask me, the opinion you'd want the most on a subject would come from someone that disliked it, not someone who was fanatically gay for it.

That's right, McClain, I called you GAY.

TAKE THAT.

you guys are spoiled. Every male in greece has to do an one year mandatory service in the army. It's not a choice. And you get to be brutally sodomized ( not really ), endure horrible mind games ( not really ) and lack of sleep ( really ). My biggest issue isn't any of that though, it's that you have no way to avoid STUPID all day long. It's like going back to highschool, but without any girls to make out with. It's constand STUPID. You get to hate people even more. My brother's just finishing up his service, and he's really worn out.

I would love to

Wrong.


Wrong.

Wrong.

Wrong.

Most people I've spoken with (who weren't trying to recruit me with their stories because they don't want me going to get killed in Iraq) say that boot camp was an amazing experience. It sucks, yes, but you make friends, get stronger, and learn alot of things. It is not to break you. Remember why the battle droids in star wars sucked (sorry :rolleyes)? Because they were nothing but broken, mindless robots who could not make decisions other than their programming if a situation arose. That's the last thing an army wants.

The american army is not very good, though.

Yeah we've seen better days :(

What ARMY really stands for: "Aren't Ready for Marines Yet!"

ARFMY

I work at a university and go to school for free. free free free.

But can you shoot a gun?

Bullshit. One of it's purposes is to push you to the breaking point to see how you respond. Better to find out you can't handle it in basic, than to find out you can't handle it when people's lives are hanging in the balance.

So if you can be broken, basic training should break you, unless the system (IMO) has failed horribly.

Oh, I'll take it all right.

Anyway. I see what you're saying. And here's Navy boot camp in a big nutshell:

It's 8 weeks long and consists of a lot of physical and mental training. As most people are fully aware, the idea is to have them break you down and rebuild you the way they want you. A person is more apt to learn if they're taught to forget all the shit they thought they knew.

Anyway. Initially they take all your possessions, make everyone wear the same clothes, yell a lot, get in your face, make you wait and wait and wait in long lines, they shave your head, and for the first few days you don't have much sleep at all. Then they'll put you in a warm room and make you sit down at a desk. You're not permitted to sleep. No one is telling you anything and you don't know why you're even in this room. Then they tell you to get on your feet and move to the next room. Then they make you piss in a bottle. All the while you're being screamed at. "STAND ON THE RED LINE, RECRUIT! THAT'S NOT THE RED LINE YOU DUMB FUCK! MOVE YOUR ASS RECRUIT! MOVE YOUR ASS TO THE RED LINE!" Some guys get stage fright. Some guys cry. Most guys just piss, though.

You learn not to speak unless you are spoken to, and when you do address an RDC (Recruit Drill Commander) it's "Sir, yes sir" or "Ma'am, no ma'am." Just like you see in the movies.

Once the initial week is over with, it's a crash course in Navy lifestyle. You spend a good 5 or 6 hours a day in class or in some sort of hands-on training. You spend a good 2 hours a day working out. Always in the morning. You get 3 meals a day and you get about 5-10 minutes to eat, depending on where you're located in the serving line. Everywhere you go you're always standing in line. "HEEL TO TOE," they scream. I need to be standing so close to the recruit in front of my that my toes need to touch the heels of his boots. Literally. They also call this "nut to butt" for obvious reasons.

You are NEVER allowed to speak in the galley. There could be 300 recruits in a giant cafeteria and you could almost hear a pin drop.
There are only a few people permitted to speak and they are in positions of authority among the recruits. You want someone to pass the salt at the table? Knock on the table twice. Three times for pepper. Four times for napkins. So on and so forth. I don't remember exactly how many knocks equate to what items, but you get the gist.

RDC's are always yelling at you. More so if you don't pay attention or if you are bringing the rest of your division down. If one person fails in a particular area, the ENTIRE DIVISION gets punished. This is a method utilized to keep the recruits from fucking around. Someone is less likely to goof off or do something improperly if they know that everyone else will pay the price.

There were more instances than I can recall where someone tried to sneak in a cookie or some peanut butter. When they got caught, the RDC worked the shit out of everyone else but this one guy. He got to sit on the table and eat his peanut butter while we "made it rain". That's when they close all the windows in our barracks, turn up the heat and work us so hard that sweat starts dripping from the ceiling.

That peanut butter guy was a model of perfection the next morning. And it's because he was punished. By us.

Recruits aren't savage or looking for an excuse to kick the shit out of each other but if you're a fuckup you'll pay the price. It can be severe, too. Ever heard of a blanket party? That shit can break ribs. After a while you toughen up. Your skin gets thick. You're so used to doing push-ups and sit ups that you could get dropped and pump out 80 non-stop. It's almost nothing for most people toward the latter phases of boot camp.

All the learning is fast-paced because they don't have time to go over finer details. And they teach us EVERYTHING. Everything from how to steer a ship to how to put on a condom. I shit you not. And it all happens so fast, you don't have a choice but to learn.

Some people can't handle the emotional stress and find ways to escape. They think that boot camp is reality and that things will continue in the same fashion once they're sent out in the fleet. That's a huge misconception. EVERYTHING changes once you leave boot camp. Half of the shit they taught me wasn't even applicable, but that's not the point. The point is that they taught me to learn quickly and in certain situations not to ask questions.

The people that were resistant didn't make it. Their brains would give out and they'd just stand there shaking, or they'd threaten to throw themselves off the roof. They were usually processed out of the Navy.

In my boot camp tenure there wasn't a single suicide. They do happen, but not as often as your buddy lets on. Perhaps he did have a couple that decided to kill themselves while he was there, but it's not that common. And because I am a cynic, I think that anyone weak enough to kill themselves in boot camp could have been just as capable of doing as a civilian. Boot camp is just a catalyst.

If you keep your mouth shut and do what you're told boot camp isn't so bad. You take everything with a grain of salt and don't give up your inner individuality and you'll be fine.

I'm pretty sure your friend was confused about the black flag. Was he in boot during the summer months? The black flag is usually an indication that it's too hot outside for extensive physical activity. They don't need Recruits getting heat exhaustion or heat strokes.
Your sleep hours tend to get longer, and believe it or not, they give you AT LEAST 6 hours of sleep a night. Usually more like 7 or 8, but it varies. It wouldn't matter if they gave you 12 though, you'd still wake up feeling exhausted.

And no, most guys went the entire 9 weeks without getting a single erection. Heresy attributes it to saltpeter put in our chow but the government alleges it's a psychological effect.

There isn't a lot of down time but when you do have time to relax it's not against the rules to speak to each other. It's not like you never get to talk. That's not the case at all. When you're in your barracks you can gab all you want provided there isn't an inspection.

And if you "fuck up" you don't get sent to train with the Marines. I don't know from where the hell your boy pulled that one. If you fuck up, they either recycle you, meaning you're put back a few weeks in training, or they kick you out. Simple as that.

They can't beat you. Technically they can't even touch you anymore. The only people that die in boot camp are the people that kill themselves. And the only really difficult thing is the gas chamber. That sucked balls. But overall it's not that hard. It's just a phase. Anyone can do it.

Short answer "yes". Does my love-gun count?

This is the harsh part that most people equate with being mean for no reason when actually it is the ultimate kindness. To get you organized out of your past state of mind and into a state of mind wherein your perception is so lucid, so perceptive for every detail and ready to be able to not only react but also to anticipate will be invaluable in certain possible future military situations.

It is my belief that for those that did commit suicide, it was because the military was a last desperate attempt to straighten out their lives and, failing that ...

I, too, never KNEW of an actual suicide taking place. There was a rumor that one occured at a distant company in our battalion but, oddly, know one knew him, his exact name, his exact company, ect. I still believe, to this day, that it was some sort of twisted scare tactic by the cadre.

Hell, most of us were cynical and considered it a game. It was. The pure foolishness of it made me and my platoon mates LOL at times. They never really "broke" anyone that I knew. Conformity is for cultists and marines.

Most of the stuff you were talkin about, Clain, were other things I'd been told (making it 'rain' among them). Anyway, I'm sure Potatoe wouldn't appreciate me telling his story here without letting him know, so I'll let him know and he'll come on to argue or something if he wants. I'd think boot camps would be uniform in their operation, so the possibilty of him being sent to 'camp hard knocks' or something isn't exactly a possibility. I'm guessing the unbiased truth lies somewhere between your two accounts of the situation. I've heard the 'being forced to train with the marines' thing from at least 4 seperate people that have been to boot camp, so unless this is just some big joke on your pal chojin ha ha am i right guys, there has to be some truth to that.

For the record, he was discharged due to a previous knee surgery, which he got injured in the first place during his days as a professional wrestler on the MCW circuit (that I have multiple witnesses for and he still has a few of his outfits). Somewhere there are pictures and videos of him IN ACTION too, and we're digging through some crap this weekend. If I find anything, I'll be sure to post it. The whole bipolar thing was just an extra reason for them to drop him to seps.