ungggh aaaaghhung aaarrrgghgnnnng
 

FUCK. I HATE you, China.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...340277776.html
The latest Chinese threat: No slip of the tongue By Christopher Holton
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM Monday, July 25, 2005

Partially buried in the news dominated by terrorist bombings and the Valerie
Plame blamegame on July 15, was an overt threat against the United States
delivered by a general in Red China's People's Liberation Army (PLA).

General Zhu Chengu, the dean of Red China's National Defense University,
said that if the United States interfered with any Chinese attempt to use
force against Taiwan, China would attack America with nuclear weapons. Here
were his exact words:

"I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons. Of course, the
Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds of cities will be destroyed
by the Chinese."
America's response to this threat has been curiously weak. America chose its
weakest department of government with which to respond: State.

The State Department's spokesman called the remarks "unfortunate,"
"disturbing" and "irresponsible." The response made it seem as if the State
Department believed that the remarks were either made mistakenly or did not
represent the views of Red China's leaders.

This was playing right into China's hands. They proclaimed that the general'
s remarks were his own personal viewpoint and not official Chinese policy.
But, most importantly, the Chinese did not retract the general's statement,
nor did they disavow the remarks or apologize.

One wonders what the outcry would be from both sides if a U.S. Army general
had uttered such a comment directed at China. I frankly believe that our own
State Department's response would have been much stronger and more critical
had a U.S. officer made such a statement and there is no doubt in my mind
that we would have disowned the remark. Meanwhile, our general's career
would be over for all practical purposes.

Some might say that perhaps the Chinese general's career will suffer as a
result of his remarks. I doubt it. Not if history is any guide.

You see, this is the second time in the past decade that a high ranking
Chinese general has threatened the U.S. with nuclear weapons in the past
decade. Back in 1996, speaking about the same question of Taiwan, General
Xiong Guangkai inferred in a thinly veiled threat that the U.S. would not
come to Taiwan's aid because America cared more about Los Angeles than
Taipei. He made this statement directly to U.S. diplomat Charles Freeman.

No apology was ever issued for those remarks in 1996. General Xiong was not
reprimanded, in fact, he was promoted and became chief of military
intelligence, close to the top of the PLA hierarchy.

What is shocking and frustrating is that anyone in the United States could
even believe that a PLA general could ever just express his own views in the
first place. U.S. officers are highly restricted from expressing their
opinions on such matters. In China's centralized, communist society, there
is no such thing as freedom of expression. Do you think for a minute that
this same general could have said that Taiwan had a right to sovereignty and
survived intact? Of course not. General Zhu's remarks were not inadvertent
and they certainly did not reflect his own personal views. We can be sure
that his remarks were calculated and designed to both issue a warning to the
U.S. and then solicit a response that could be carefully analyzed and
measured.

So far, we have failed this analysis. Instead of wondering aloud whether
these remarks represented official Chinese policy, we should have declared
that the remarks put the U.S.-China relationship in a whole new light then
summoned our ambassador for consultations. We should have demanded a
retraction and apology. We should also have convened a meeting of leaders
from Japan, Australia and others in the Asia-Pacific region to discuss China
's repeated threats to use nuclear weapons. And we should have inferred that
another option would be for the U.S. to fully arm Taiwan with sophisticated
weaponry so as to make U.S. action unnecessary.






mere rhetorical bullshit? maybe. but wars have been started over this kind of language. we're fast coming to the point where China will be in a good enough political and military position to challenge Taiwanese autonomy and, most likely, it will make or break the US position in the 21st century. it's not too far out there to imagine losing western europe to the Chinese, hell, they're already in bed with them, but nations like Canada, Australia, Japan, the UK, etcetera? if Taiwan falls, it's definitely a possibility. if they slip away peacefully, we'll lose too much face politically. if we go to war with China, well, their nuclear capabilities are now almost on par with our own. oh, the problems one well placed bomb in Beijing might solve.

I think this calls for a preemtive US nuclear strike on Taiwan, as the potential need to defend it threatens our national security.

I thought this would be a topic about the late Terri Schiavo

I don't like gimps.

I like this image better than the drooler image.......She's dead, you know....the Democrats killed her.

NO GIMPS PLEASE. THIS IS A GIMP FREE THREAD :<

your sig is making me lag like fuck IS :(

but it's so pretty

Re: ungggh aaaaghhung aaarrrgghgnnnng
 

and you wonder why that stupid test said you were hitlerific? if your gut response to the china-taiwan issue really is a US preemtive strike on china, because your fear they are going to take over the world... well, shit. YOU scare ME.

Hell, we tied them about 50 years ago. I think that with some of the key draft picks we've picked up over the years and some coaching changes, we have a chance to go all the way this time around.

Hey, Eye Tie, did you see the story about China getting all chummy with Mugabe now? Apparently Mugabe has become so Anti-American/pro-Chinese, that he's pushing for like a whole "Chinafication" in Zimbabwe.

And of course, China gets access to their resources.

Mugabe is a nut. if there were a violent revolution in Zimbabwe and his eyes were torn through his penis, I certainly wouldn't be mourning for him. he blames us for not dealing with his unemployment and inflation issues, but then doesn't seem to quite grasp the concept that he's a complete cunt. his township clearing programs are now being directly fucking linked to Chinese investment and Zimbabwe is now ripe for Chinese colonization. what a ridiculous fucking state of affairs.

and I would say that both China and Russia, the former more so than the latter, are going to be more responsible for destabilizing the world over the next 50 years than any terrorists. China has made territorial claims, most of them bullshit, on 11 out of 25 of her neighbors, they are selling high technology, weapon tech, to some of our most dangerous enemies, they're constantly stealing technological secrets from us, and they're rapidly mobilizing and testing our military patience. they do these things because they see us as trying to "prevent the rise of China." they see war with the US as an inevitability and are already rallying developing nations against the western nations in the UN and the WTO. why do you think the US was removed from the Human Rights Commission for the first time since the 1940s? Chinese strategies for ensuring their dominance have ranged from using economic punishments to force us to dismantle our nuclear arms, our intelligence services, and scale down our militaries by as much as 80% to permanently stationing Chinese forces inside our nations. some Chinese leaders even want to force the West to pay annual reparations for exploiting them in their centuries of weakness, and they're fairly hefty fines at that. I remember reading that some of them were saying 10% of our GDP.

I like China, I'd love to go visit with Jin, but I'd be more than happy to put a bullet into every Chinese Communist's head.

You are refering to extremist old schoolers. Even that general admits he wasn't speaking on behalf of the government.

China isn't invading anyone else anytime soon. They can't go after Taiwan or Japan because their navy is a joke. Its actually considered a small branch of their army. They have no troop transports and would get slaughtered by the Taiwan defense, never mind if we actually did decide to step in.

Afghanistan and Pakistan? For what? Lots of useless land and a populace thats going to keep drawing them into the mountains and grinding away at them? That is, if we have already left.

South Korea? They don't want to go head to head with us anymore than we want it. And before anyone pipes up, no, we don 't want that.

Russia ? Ya, go ahead and start a war in Siberia. Think Hitler and Napolean hit roadblocks?

The Old Guard of the Moa Communists is dying off. The new leaders are realizing the benefits of a capitalist society and why its a good idea to play nice with th rest of the world. Any military build up can be attributed for wanting to project power to protect their interests.

Are they still doing underhnded shit? Ya.
Do I trust them? As about as far as I can throw them all.

But, you have to realize what an actual war would cost them in comparison to what they'd actually gain.

Who, in the history of the world, has exploited them more than Japan? I find your view reactionary and extreme and would prefer a point of reference to your arguments over reading in between very fine lines and ethnocentric speculation.

kellychaos



Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 6666


:eek

Thats extra evil.

Quite. :posh

I think they are learning the benefits of a heavily state-monitored free market, what it can produce, what it can get you, particularly since wages remain low, rights remain low, free press remains nada, etc.

I think Eye Tie is right about the threat China poses compared to that of terrorism. Don't get me wrong, I think the latter is a crucial struggle, but it may end up hurting us in terms of where we stand against China. China is bouncing all around the world, locking up resources for their production needs, and they're flaunting their military might just a bit to show that they can protect those resources. So their navy sucks now, they only have some of the brightest minds in the world, along with millions of people to toss into it.

We are distancing ourselves from states that support terrorism, and demanding that they clean up their act. Our relationship with Uzbekistan (rightfully, IMO) has become jeopardized due to their terrible human rights record. But China isn't squeemish about picking up where we've left off. They've embraced Uzbekistan, they've embraced Mugabe, and they'll go wherever the advantage is.

I don't think we need to nuke China, but we do need to encourage some kind of a progressive movement within China, similar to our own of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Capitalist production needs to go along with a free press, civil rights, workers rights, environmental protections, and all of the other annoying stuff that might impede China from just growing and growing and growing.....

Human rights are also a big part of our trade negociations. They know that the best way to grow to beome the economic superpower they want to be is to make nice with us. They are drooling for Favored Nation status.

They get some African natiuons to produce resources for them. Big deal. How many Latin American and Asian countries can we say the same about?

And they still need a market to sell all these things. We keep catching them dirty dealing against us and we aren't going to be too open to their products.

why were no apologies made? why was nothing retracted? this sort of language has started wars in the past and this sort of thing isn't exactly new to the Chinese. it's an underhanded tactic used by the Party to intimidate other nations.

I'm not as concerned about a naval invasion as I am about a missile strike. the Chinese missile systems are infinitely more advanced than they were even 15 years ago, thanks almost entirely to their espionage in the US. the same thing with their nuclear program. the Chinese have stolen some of our most sensitive nuclear technology and it has benefitted them immensely.

I'm not sure about Afghanistan, especially with the US occupation, but I know Pakistan is already getting into bed with China. they've signed weapons treaties and the Chinese have an oil and gas agreement with Pakistan, plus other communications, infrastructure, and high technology deals. Pakistan's proximity to China guarantees that they'll be in the Sino sphere of influence. it's still too early to determine whether or not this will really be bad for us.

any action against south korea is going to involve north korea as well. now, the two militaries combined are more than enough to overwhelm our forces in the area, especially since we are otherwise occupied elsewhere. I'm pretty sure the Chinese would be willing to support their Korean allies if a war were to ever occur, as our response would be limited. the UN wouldn't do a damn thing about it either, as Russia and China are like husband and wife at this point.

when the Chinese are economically and militarily powerful enough, I have no doubt in my mind that they're going to want their Far East back. at that point, I think that China will be so influential in the affairs of Russia that they'll get exactly what they want with little bloodshed.

not as much as you might think. since the end of the Cultural Revolution, there have been periods of progressive economic and cultural policy, but these have always been brutally repressed whenever they advanced too far. there is far too much centralized authority in the CCP to dismiss the Mao style Communists. where there is authoritarianism, there is always an authoritarian.

and they're still doing underhanded shit because they have no desire to play nice with the rest of the world. they want to be the hegemon. it's no secret, in fact, it's all but the official position of the government.

a devastating war for the US would probably suit them quite nicely. hell, they've already said they won't rule out a nuclear war with the US because they feel that their population is enough to survive an exchange. if we lose our international influence, they would become preponderant in Asia and, most likely, throughout much of the world.

they have a manpower pool larger than our entire population and we're basically GIVING them high technology, advanced weaponry, and economic capital. they're quickly modernizing and they see us as not just an enemy, but THE enemy.

for one, the Chinese Communist Party has exploited the Chinese far more than any foreign power. but before you start crying for them, just remember that they were one of the most powerful countries, and at times THE most powerful, throughout most of recorded history.

do tell me, what is so very ethnocentric about my thoughts? it's hard to speak of China without referring to the Chinese people, so that much is really unavoidable. I'm not making this a white people versus yellow people discussion, I'm talking about an established power versus a belligerent rising power.

They are moving into those very same Latin American markets, btw.

I'm not saying they pose immediate threat to us, and of course they need to flood their cheap goods somewhere, but they will only do that as long as it is absolutely necessary, IMO. There are other growing consumer markets, and like I said, they're "playing nice" as you call it all over the place.

I still say that we are at a disadvantage due to the strict nature of their market, and maybe not in my lifetime, but perhaps later, China will be the biggest economic and perhaps military threat we face. I believe we will see a bipolar international system again.

well, we've caught them a number of times and we're still trading with them. they're too large of a market to brush off like that.

they play nice with us because they're using us.

They are trying to keep face. Let them blow wind. Our Ofio class subs are more than enough to make sure its just shit talking.

They are eyeing Taiwan and Japan for their economic infrastructures. Wiping the cities off the face of the Earth kind of puts a dent in that. Its a much better idea to send in troops that can actually occupy the centers.

Pakistan is currently both sides, like they and India did during the Cold War.

You'd be surprise just how effective a few B2s can be. Again, we wouldn't have to directly engage them. I also think you're overestimating just how happy the PRC is with Kim Jong Il. They've yanked the leash on him several times when he ran his mouth too much.

As cynical about them as I am, even I have to hope they'd be more active in that. If they let china run through a sovereign nation simply because they like the trade relationship, the orginaztion is sunk at that exact moment

You are seriously over estimating that relationship.

I'd say Western Europe and the United States has just as much a chance to be a powerful influence in Russia as China.

Yes, but little by little, the human rights are increasing.

The can say it all they want. They realize it just isn't going to happen.

I don't think you remember our doctrine from the Cold War. Mutually Assured Destruction. I have no idea how being turned into a radioactive wasteland suits them.


Yes, there would still be Chinese people. But, there would be no China. We don't have to wipe out the entire population, just level their military and industrial centers. What good is all them people if they have no manufacturing capabilities?

Just how would they escape unscathed?

[quote]they have a manpower pool larger than our entire population and we're basically GIVING them high technology, advanced weaponry, and economic capital. they're quickly modernizing and they see us as not just an enemy, but THE enemy.
[/ quote]

An enemy they are going to have to coexist with. I'm not saying roll over and take their shit, but you gotta realize that a fight with them over some hardliner blowing wind just isn't to anyone's advantage.

I hope china wins, chinese food is one of my favorite types of food... im so hungry now.

How much money are the Chinese borrowing internationally in order to make their government and economy work??? This question is for anybody. :|

And is there no fear that China might just dump all of the bonds they currently own in an attempt to hurt us....?