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-   -   Tales From the Longbox 31: "Ultimates 3: Ultimately Crappy" (http://i-mockery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69701729)

MockBot Feb 27th, 2009 06:43 AM

Tales From the Longbox 31: "Ultimates 3: Ultimately Crappy"
Automatically generated comment thread for Tales From the Longbox 31: "Ultimates 3: Ultimately Crappy".

Doctor_Who Feb 27th, 2009 09:15 AM

"Wolver-fucker-ine". I'm totally going to start calling him that.

And does anyone else think that if mutants really existed, the term "mutie" would be WAY too silly sounding to ever be offensive, no matter how hatefully some redneck shouts it?

Here's hoping Loeb recovers from his tragedy and finds his muse again. He's done some excellent work in the past (Long Halloween rocks), and I'd hate to lose a writer of that caliber.

RevengeVirus Feb 27th, 2009 10:28 AM

Between this and the new Hulk series I can't help but wonder why Jeff Loeb is trying to get fired from Marvel.

stonewar Feb 27th, 2009 12:23 PM

that Cap/Black panther thing is weird. I didn't read this series obviously, just your article, but in a team that small they never noticed they weren't in the same room a the same time? Its that old sitcom gag. "You're looking for Black panther? I saw him down the hall. Let me go get him for you." (Captain America exits, changes clothes, reenters as Black Panther.)
Plus it appears he changed clothes in the middle of the savage land fight. of course if was doing that old sitcom in and out of rooms he must have got pretty good at the quick change.

RevengeVirus Feb 27th, 2009 12:31 PM

Also, no one's ever explained how Doom got back from the Marvel Zombiverse.

Angryhydralisk Feb 27th, 2009 12:43 PM

Sooooo this is what I've been missing out on reading Marvel comics? My head hurts.

Graystreet Feb 27th, 2009 01:25 PM

Don't lump the Ultimate universe in with genuine Marvel comics. Everything in it has been utterly stupid fad obeying crap. Steve Rogers is a mentally handicapped facist, The Incredible Hulk is a cannibal, so on an so forth. It isn't "edgy" "new" or even slightly entertaining, it is the exact kind of sputum that Image comics spent the entire 90's spitting out at an alarming rate, and that even at the worst of the Clone Saga, Marvel comics stayed superior to.

Mark Miller is an overrated hack that hates comic books, Loeb is an overworked creatively exhausted but talented man, and neither one of them should ever work again for DC or Marvel comics.

EDIT - I forgot to mention, I like the art style though, it's a bit peculiar for a superhero comic book but the artist would work well teamed up with a more mystically oriented book.

Alcibiades Feb 27th, 2009 01:39 PM

In the next comic, we'll get to see DOOM fail, with Magneto now watching him on a secret camera from an undisclosed location, commenting on how things are fitting into his plans, when from behind that we'll see that DOOM is really watching Magneto watch himself and how that's falling into his plans.

Then DOOM will pull off his mask to reveal that he's a robot underneath, which will whirr and open to reveal that it's really Captain America, who will comment that 'He's the best at what he does' and wink at the reader so that we can be foreshadowed that it's really Wolverine.

And in the end it will all turn out as a plan set up by Ant-man while he was stuck in house arrest to create conflicts and danger so that his wife would get beaten up when he wasn't around to make sure she got the slapping around she needed.

Tetsu Deinonychus Feb 27th, 2009 01:40 PM

OMG this is a clusterfuck! (and I don't use the term "clusterfuck" very often)

I am sooo glad I never bothered with the "Ultimate" universe

This plays out more like a bad parody then an actual story.

mburbank Feb 27th, 2009 03:01 PM

First of all, damn fine aticle, proto. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Reading your synopsis/interpretation put a fine point on what irritated me most about this book.

I disagree strongly with a previous poster, and think Milar did truly excellent work on his run. His ultimates were fully written charcaters with complictaed, adult motivations and emotions. His Iron man wasn't just a central casting drunk, he was a genius with a terminal condition who was drinking. A hedonist most of the time carefully putting certain aspects of his character up front and daring people to guess what he cared about and how much. It was the only, only, only time I've evr seen iron man written well.

I could go on about how Milar handled other characters, but I won't. My main point is that he wrote them well. Loeb gave everybody, villians and heroes, a cliched pose of grim determination, and then layered on a single trait for each onwe with a clumsy brush. Hawkeye is deathwish guy. Wasp is Now I'm In harge Girl. Cap is I Have a secret plan guy. Thor is angry sex guy. Valkery is hot teenager. Its all so infantile, like a middleschool class role playing and seeing who they cabn shock by how much they know about sex and drugs and other things they've seen in movies.

Jonny#5 Feb 27th, 2009 04:53 PM

I'm sure nobody is going to miss the Ultimates when Ultimatum kills 'em off (esp. after this debacle) but I wish they had the common sense to leave Ultimate Spider-man out of it. I't the only Ultimate comic book that's readable!

Aries Feb 27th, 2009 06:08 PM

Great review, Proto. Nobody takes the piss out of things like you. Which reminds me...there's still the matter of ten things you like and hate about Episode 3.

Mental Pooperscooper Feb 27th, 2009 07:49 PM

You know, its sad just how right you probably are.

HeroliciousDeBlanc Feb 27th, 2009 09:55 PM

So then was there even a real Black panther? And if so, where the hell was he?

Copper Feb 28th, 2009 01:45 AM

Anyone else do a double take during Yellowjacket's monologue about how humans think of the machines as "Toasters, alarm clocks, and vibrators" or was that just me?

Graystreet Feb 28th, 2009 01:52 AM

I don't think a vibrator is a machine.

My wife says hers could replace me anytime, so they're more of a man then me.

Purple Man Feb 28th, 2009 03:13 AM

Another fine roasting; I love the Longboxes. Such a waste of some amazing art here. The Ultimates started out so strong, but that impetus was lost for reasons explained above by Messrs Protoclown and Burbank. Vol 3 was definitely a title too far. Ruining the awesome potential of "Heroes" was one thing, but did he have to do this as well?

Masochist/True Believer that I am, I still collected it of course, and also happen to getting 'Ultimatium' as well. Let me assure you, in only two issues it has produced crap of a magnitude unseen in comic book history - the greatest highlight being the systematic slaughter of most of the Ultimate characters, like when...

...now here's a SPOILER truly worthy of the word...

Ultimate Blob is discovered eating Ultimate Wasp alive. Janet was probably better off with the exploding-Skrulls-thing in SI, eh? It kind of symbolises the X-TREME!!! mindlessness of the 'Ultimates' style in it's ugliest form.

Oh yeah, and:
"Shove your moose in my squirrel, comrade! YUMSKI!"

JTN Feb 28th, 2009 03:47 AM

I don't know why Jeph Loeb has the desire to fit as many outside characters in his stories as he can. In this story alone we have a good Half of the Cast of X-Men, the two most popular characters in the Spider-Man franchise, and of course, Wolverine. I can only guess he wanted to get Howard the Duck, Daredevil, the Punisher, and Batman in there too for good measure, but Marvel Editorial was like, "Woah, Jeph! You're already kind of pushing the envelope with 'I thinketh it cuteth'."

The next time someone asks me what "Gratuitous" means I'm gonna hand them this book. I know the previous chapters of the Ultimates upped the sex factor and adult material per issue, but under Loeb it went from "adult" to "disturbing" and then went straight across the sleaze spectrum to "What the hell? Did Wasp just talk about incest like it was normal?"

ARggggh this book. Ultimates and Ultimate Spider-Man were really the only things worth reading in the Ultimate universe, and now the same isn't really true for either anymore.

executioneer Feb 28th, 2009 05:17 AM


Originally Posted by Purple Man (Post 616411)

whoa, two achewood references, nice :eek

HowardC Feb 28th, 2009 05:42 AM

I've got to disagree with Mr. Burbank on this one. The ultimate universe was always fairly crappy. Yes the characters emotional issues were more fleshed out than usual, but the problem is those emotional issue were so blatent and obvious. Good writing doesn't help something in "daytime soap opera" format because it's still a frikkin daytime soap opera!

I have a big problem with all of these offshoot variants of main marvel characters cmpletely on principal. I can certainly understand the appeal of "what if" stories like the marvel zombies but what exactly is the point of constantly re-hashing characters into something they are not? Generally they "re-imagine" a character in a comic book in order to have a new character with a ready-made backstory, but in the case of ultimates all the backstory of the REAL marvel heroes is thrown out the window, but makes the whole idea of ultimate books nothing more than a cheap marketing ploy. It's kind of like these movie adaptations of video games and comics that have NOTHING to do with the source material other than in the vaguest of sense. (See the legand of chun-li). The only viable reason to do something like that is to use a brand name to trick faithful fans into watching it.

One wouldn't have to do that if the end product was actually good. This goes with comics as well. If you aren't satisfied with a marvel character's personality/backstory/ect why not, instead of raping a timeless favorite into your own warped image maybe (GASP!) create a NEW character that would be more suited to be in the stories you wish to write about.

It would be nice if the ultimates died a quick death and somehow the real marvel universe would magically not suck again, but at this rate I'll be stuck reading books that aren't integral to the marvel unvierse for the rest of my life as I can never keep up with what reality-altering plot device the hack writer of the week has come up with to ruin my enjoyment of comic books!

Poxpower Feb 28th, 2009 04:22 PM

I just want to know: who is their colorist, how many hours does he work every day and how much are they paying him?

Rufus the Perturbed Feb 28th, 2009 10:15 PM

Jesus Christ, what the fuck is happening with the comic industry? I know comics have never been considered great literature, but seriously, what the fuck? I tried reading the first issue of Ultimates 3 the other day and almost threw up on the damn thing (and I'm truely not exaggerating). Great article, though, Proto. Tales from the Longbox is what made me love this site. You really have a gift for making torturous experiences more enjoyable (and I mean the comics are torturous, not your writing). Are you and Max ever going to do another crossover-type column together? Please consider it.

Dungeonbrownies Mar 1st, 2009 03:59 AM


this is why those foreign comics have managed to infiltrate our culture.
For now, american comic book artists everywhere bow their heads in shame.
It feels just like the auto industry.

Kilgore Cod Mar 2nd, 2009 12:40 AM

"(See the legand of chun-li)"

No I will not.

Nick Mar 2nd, 2009 01:17 AM

That was horrible.

DarkfireTaimatsu Mar 2nd, 2009 01:18 AM

My main issue here is with that one about halfway down the second page, the one with Cap-bot sparking lightning out of his face and Ant-Man flying out of his mouth. Look at that word balloon. When your text is 80 times the size of the word balloon, just forget the balloon, honestly.

Also, I never thought I'd say this, but Captain America looks weird without his little wings on top of his head.

Tetsu Deinonychus Mar 2nd, 2009 02:51 AM

Legend of Chun Li couldn't be any worse than the previous attempt at a live-action Street Fighter movie.

Uroboros Mar 2nd, 2009 02:08 PM

Oh yes, the Chun-li movie is orders of magnitude worse that the cheesy 90s version. It is literally one of the worst movies I have ever seen, period. It actually got into a fight with House of the Dead for worst movie, but since HotD was at least rated R, Chun-Li is now the worst movie ever made. Oh, and "cake or death" reference was pure win.

Protoclown Mar 2nd, 2009 07:16 PM

Like Max, I also immensely enjoyed the first two Ultimates series and normally find Mark Millar's work to be quite likeable. It's usually clear when editorial is dropping mandates on him (Civil War) and when they are not (The Authority, censorship issues aside). I'd say the Ultimates 1 and 2 are the best stuff to come out of the whole Ultimate line by far. Everything else went downhill way before Ultimates did (at least chronologically, not by number of issues).

Alcibiades: I love your interpretation of how things will go and wish that you could write it. Because I'm sure that would be a lot funnier and more enjoyable than when we eventually read the exact same thing but it's all done in earnest.

Apparently no, there never was a real Ultimate Black Panther.

Purple Man: I will probably break down and read Ultimatum after it's all concluded simply because it will almost certainly make for a funny Longbox column. But I won't spend a dime on it, no sir. Thanks for sharing the crappiness with us so far though...

Rufus the Perturbed: I would love to do another Crossover column with Max, but it has to be a topic that really lends itself well to that kind of thing. If you have any suggestions, feel free to throw them out!

And sometimes I fear that my Longbox columns only serve to convince people that there aren't ANY good comics out there. This is not true. The best Marvel comics right now though are the ones that stay as far away from the big universe "events" as much as they can. Immortal Iron Fist, Captain America, and Daredevil are easily the three best books Marvel is publishing at the moment, and they only touch the "universe" in the most tangential way. If you want to check out an honestly GOOD Marvel book right now, any of those are worth a look.

Tetsu Deinonychus Mar 2nd, 2009 08:21 PM

I think a column about all these big crossover events, past and present. Or a column about Superhero death and resurrection would be great topics worthy of another team-up of that magnitude.

In fact one about the big events could involve the whole I-Mockery crew. As if the entire I-Mockery universe is affected by all these ridiculous "big event" stories.

Graystreet Mar 2nd, 2009 10:00 PM

You could make spin-off Hey Dork! into a new column about good comic books, and still do the whole synopsis thing with the panels and commentary, but maintain the dignity of the series and counteract any unlikely but potential negative side effects of the Long Box.

Protoclown Mar 2nd, 2009 10:38 PM

Tetsu, I'm actually glad you mentioned that, because back when Captain America died all four of the writers were talking about doing a combined Comic Book Deaths piece, but it never did end up happening. Max and I might be able to pick up the pieces of that idea and run somewhere with it.

Graystreet, "Hey Dork!" is Max's column, and what he does or doesn't do with it is completely up to him. I hope he has more articles in his bag of tricks though, because I fucking love those columns.

Graystreet Mar 2nd, 2009 11:06 PM

This is why I should always listen to my instinct to check my facts, I was positive that Hey Dork! was written by you and Max taking turns until Long Box spun off into what it is now, I apologize for my confusion.

Gato Mar 2nd, 2009 11:56 PM

That dialogue couldn't be any greater.

OxBlood Mar 3rd, 2009 07:23 AM

I donīt read comics but I know that this one is pretty shitty. Nonetheless itīs hillarious somehow... They could all just stand around in a pink room and yell "YA-YA! YAAAA!" at each other while blasting the shit out of an undead elephant. Would basically be the same.

Purple Man Mar 4th, 2009 04:43 AM

I'm biased as hell, of course, but I would add a few other Marvel titles to the ones Proto mentioned. Captain Britain & MI13 has been going strong for a while, although the recent appearance of a craptacular Dracula and Dr "I'm EVERYWHERE these days" Doom does not bode well. But it's got Spitfire and Blade totally making out!1!!1!.

Also, Thunderbolts. It is a big part of Dark Reign, but I feel it's a shitload of fun. The new lineup is great (Yelena Belova, Headsman, Paladin, Ghost and Ant-Man III); it may yet turn crappy on me, but the setup is classic.


the Platinum Poppy Mar 5th, 2009 12:00 PM

I have only one thing more to add... Hasn't brother/sister-incest become a pretty tedious ingredient in pop-culture? Perhaps it was "rad" when Jerry Cornelius was first published... but that was a while ago.

Graystreet Mar 5th, 2009 12:55 PM

There's like six other incestuous twin couplets in the Ultimate universe, so apparently, it's new and exciting to someone.

DavidFullam Mar 7th, 2009 01:59 PM

I heard tell that rumor had it that the Ultimates Universe was so popular at one time, it might have supplanted the regular Marvel Universe as the main continuity. Guess those days are over.

Justaguy33 Mar 9th, 2009 01:15 AM

Actually, there <b>is</b> an Ultimate Black Panther. He appeared in the Ultimate Captain America annual. Basically, he's T'Challa from Ultimate Wakanda. He got his ass handed to him by a real panther, and the king sent him off to Weapon X because they could save his life. Along the way, for some reason, T'Challa got jacked up with some super-powers pretty much like Wolverine. Healing factor, added strength, some adamantium claws . . . the whole deal. For whatever reason. But Weapon X never fixed his vocal chords. Fury, for whatever reason, decided to keep Panther after raiding a Weapon X place. Keep . . . as his property. So once Fury gets stuck in the Squadron Supreme universe or something, Cap takes Panther's place by dressing up as him and getting Tony to build him fake gear - that's why Tony knew to bring Cap's shield and costume for the 'Panther.'

Graystreet Mar 9th, 2009 10:38 AM

Nick Fury's a homosexual pedophile racist, and Captain America likes to dress up as little boys?

I done told everyone to avoid the Ultimate universe.

elmstreetkid Mar 18th, 2009 06:59 AM

It's become pretty commonplace to mock Loeb, and I can understand that impulse given the poorness of his work over the past couple of years (and its sheer what-the-hell factor), but I think this article sums it up well: you can't fault a creative person for wanting to write his way through a difficult time, but you can fault Marvel for putting him on a key title.

That's not to say that the Ultimates was any good before him, though. It's just old Avengers stories with a higher content rating. The usual, cynical Millar idiocy.

The article's hilarious, because it really is a misguided and just plain lousy book, but here's something that stands out to me: Loeb is writing a huge crossover about someone destroying a world because he lost his children. That's kind of heartbreaking to me, honestly. It reminds me of that Superman: For All Seasons backup Loeb did for Superman/Batman #26 (which really is a sweet little story), but with an Ed Wood poignancy.

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