[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Zero Signal

They attack people and shelters (both verbally and physically) that euthanize animals and then they themselves turn around and do it. Look up hypocrite in the dictionary for once.

Yeah, look up "passive" for me first.

PETA does not endorse the physical assault of animal clinics, and "verbal" attacks means they argue their point with people, and challenge them on their assumptions, just as anyone else is free to do. It's called free speech. Christ, get a thicker skin.

Out of the several thousand animals they take from shelters, as stated in the program, roughly 1/3 of those already destined to die animals are saved and provided with homes.

Look at their activist network, look at their "help puppies" campaign. They argue that people should get puppies from animal clinics, and not support private pet chains. This would be the best way to prevent massive euthanizing. So how, as you said, can PETA take a policy stance that argues nobody should ever own pets, but then advocate ownership via shelters? Answer: Compromise. They obiously realize that they can't tell everyone in the world that to support PETA you must free your dog. That would be retarded.

So Penn and Teller talk to members of PETA, observe what they do, and run the wackiest stuff they had (and no argument, you can find a lot of it within PETA). But what did they edit out? Did they choose to entertain and run the most sensational stuff, or did they choose to educate like you and Perndog seem to believe....?

A member of their organization takes blood thinner.

They are opposed to all research on animals and the fruits of that research. Yet, she takes insulin derived from research on animals AND contains animal products.

Right, and she's one person. What did Penn and Teller's research into the statewide PETA and SETA chapters find??? Wait, that analysis probably didn't make the final cut.

Adolf Hitler was a painter, but does that overshadow the horrors that he orchestrated during World War 2? NO. Neither does Ray Coronado legitimate works overshadow the fact that he was convicting of fire-bombing a research lab and admitted to doing the same to 6 others.

Wow. Just, wow. Margaret Sanger edited for, applauded, and often encouraged the the eugenic works of famous idiots like Francis Gaulton. Planned Parenthood, and all of it's parent organizations, often targeted poor, "negro" communities for establishing abortion clinics. Some of the things she advocated in "Pivot of Civilization" are so ignorant and rotten, that even Planned Parenthood steps away from them. So, Zero, what's your opinion on Planned Parenthood as a whole, and for that matter, the pro-choice movement? Certainly, some stupid comments made by Sanger must indict them all, right? Stupid, racist, and ignorant policies taken in the past must condemn them all, right?

You are STILL avoiding my question of why their investigation into PETA is invalid just because of who they are and their profession. What do YOU do for a living and how is that anymore relevant to the subject that was being discussed. Oh, I forgot, IT'S NOT.

Except for the fact that I was a vegetarian for 5 years, an animal rights activist, and worked with PETA organizations and branch organizations for years. So YES, I am far more qualified to speak on this then Penn and Teller. Now if I come on here claiming to know the secret to pulling a rabbit out of a hat, then we should defer to these gentlemen.

Originally Posted by Perndog the contributor

If you're all for looking at the facts and being analytical, you need to stop bitching about how Penn and Teller are performers. They are also educated, intelligent, and politically active. It's fine to say that they don't know what they are talking about (which is still not a personal attack), but bringing their profession or character into it and assuming they couldn't possibly have a clue is stupid. So is pointing out that they were eating ribs during the show. Of course they're biased, otherwise they wouldn't have done a piece on PETA in the first place. Bias doesn't mean someone's wrong, only that you need to put extra effort into your analysis.

They are entertainers, and while they raised some interesting debate points, they didn't say anything overly conclusive. Zero Signal is treating it like gospel, and has sealed the book. That's b/c P&T merely pandered to what he already believes, he got excited, and rushed here to post it.