[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Don't try to soft sell me the consequences of harboring murderous maniacs with the blood of thousands of civilians IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, to me. The truth is they don't care about Lebanon, nearly as much as they care about killing all Jews. Hell, all these groups and nations HATE EACH OTHER, but Pan-Arabism, and Pan-Islamism found that war against Jews can unite them all. Yeah, it's fucked that their human shields are paying the price, but it's even more fucked that nobody makes half as much of a fuss over the fact that Hamas and Hezzballah purposely use human shields to begin with. Less then 400 deaths in a week for a military strike of this size shows unprecedented accuracy. Israel has phoned ahead or sent warnings prior bomb airports and other populated zones.

But that's not the way the Lebanese populace tells it. They say that Hezbollah gets to keep their arms because Israel could wipe out the Lebanese army very quickly, but they cannot wipe out guerilla fighters. I guess we're going to see rather shortly if that is true or not. Current reports are conflicting as to how much damage has actually been done to Hezbollah, and Israel certainly isn't done attacking.

This thing about the warnings though... I only heard about that yesterday. To me, that is very heartening, except for the chronology of it is a little unclear. They gave civillians warnings to get out of town BEFORE they blew up all the bridges and gas stations?

I don't really think that's the case, else why did we have to send the marines in to get our citizens out? But maybe it is... the mainstream news media is not the most reliable way to find out exactly what happened and exactly when. By the time the facts get straight, the story is "old news".

Again, are you suggesting that Arabs hate Jews and spread institutionalized antisemitism asa justified response to Jewish provocations.

I'm only suggesting that if somebody blew up my parents' house, while they were in it, I'd want revenge and/or justice, and so would any normal human being.

What we know for certain is what hasn't worked...unilateral consentions, don't work. Negotiations with these groups, don't work. Prisoners trades, do not work. That stuff only reads as a victory to these people, and they will just keep on doing it, because well - it worked the first time. Any other suggestions? What has worked? Flexing their muscle. I'm sorry, it may not appeal to you, but it's a historical truth.

That's an opinion, and you calling it a fact does not make it so. If "flexing their muscle" as you put it is what works, then why is Israel still the focus of so much violence? Israel has been "flexing it's muscle" almost non-stop since the days where it referred to it's muscle as the Haganah. Sure it solves problems in the short-term, but in the long term does it not add more fuel to the fire? What can put out this fire? Precision military strikes and walls with machine guns? You seem to be saying the only thing that can do this is for Jews to stop being Jewish. The idea that negotiations and peace agreements cannot work is a ridiculously self-defeating attitude that just happens to be shared by enough people (Jewish and Arab, alike) to make it a self-fulfilling statement.

It is my opinion that violence is inherently self-perpetuating. Again, I'll state as clearly as I can, it's still years too soon to know the full ramifications of these events, but even if a cease-fire is negotiated, it is a legitimate concern that Israeli attack on Lebanon will generate more anti-Israeli sentiment in the region than it will serve to defeat. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you think that is no big deal.


Anyway, have a nice weekend! I'm going camping and won't be able to argue with ya for a few days.