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Old Dec 18th, 2007, 10:29 PM       
So somebody makes an argument that atheists can be moral and you attempt to argue that God exists?

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All of the "variables" just happen to be set to the exact values that allow life as we know it, with all it's order we can sense, to exist... and if any of those knobs were turned just a hair... even the value of the weakest force in nature: gravity... everything would either implode or explode or by some other means cease to be...
SO? What does that matter? IF EVERYTHING SUDDENLY CHANGED EVERYTHING WOULD SUDDENLY CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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how could existence and nature possibly be through an evolutionary process? Without a design?
Isn't the idea of the Platonic forms kind of that there is an intrinsic form to existence which can't be deviated from? and that this form is underlying all existence, just by the fact that it exists?

To use your physics example: Can you change any of the natural laws? Can you make "force" be not forceful? For example, if an extremely large and heavy boulder landed on your head, could it possibly have less force than the force of a feather which is extremely small and light dropping on your head? Or would it always have to be like that?
maybe there are just certain types of constants. But who says those constants are "God," or mean the same thing that God means to us?

i know im opening myself up for something about WHEN THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED IF THINGS WERE CREATED SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY....

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all of the forces of nature have to be dialed in with exacting precision and forced to work together by strict laws in order for everything in the universe to exist without instant destruction of some sort happening.
That's not necessarily true. And an interesting question is if it's even possible for things to not work in some sort of precision.

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who would you propose is learning from this process if not some sort of intelligent designer?
Why does someone have to be learning? What makes you think existing has any sort of point...?
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