[The_Rorschach]

Mod: I see Saddam falling on his own. Most dictators eventually get their due (Stalin, Amin, Mussolini et al), and if history serves us correct, so will Saddam. It's not the most complex answer, I know, but that's what I speculate.

1991 illustrated exactly what support Saddam had within his own nation, the people have no power there. The United States did not take him out at the time for fear of someone even worse replacing him, the devil you know over the devil you don't. Perhaps I'm simply overbearingly arrogant, but I am afraid that Saddam with reign until outside mitigating factors remove him

Burbie: Jump back and unbunch your panties. You know what happens when you assume, and your assumptions about miss mod based solely on a single jaunty statement are unwarranted.

Then she has my apologies.

Morevoever just as Bush ain't no Truman (and that's damning with faint praise) Afghanistan ain't no Korea. Karzai's chances of surviving daily are slim enough.

Much agreed, but everyday he wakes to find himself alive and whole, he knows the reason why - And that reason will haunt his every action, thought and deed.

Much as I might like to see it, the idea of Karzai leading a western style democracy is pie in the sky.

Karzai? No, he will never see it. Doubtless, neither will his predecessors, and that can be hoped is that they will walk the path towards it, and one distant day they may even arrive. We are not acting for our present, but for our children's future.

Even in South Korea, which is your best case scenario, we've maintained a heavy military presence all this time, we've never really left, and even so, we're coming dangerouysly close to square one there.

Quite the contrary, I believe our current standing with N Korea is mostly illusionary. The military flexing Jung is performing is largely a bargaining tactic. His country is malnourished, lacking in vital natural resources and economically floundering, while to south is the most fiscally vibrant country in Asia. So Korea has made the most of their oppourtunities and now the North is envious. I believe that in the end, a peace might even be brokered between the two resulting in opened borders for trade.

Plus, I don't think Western style Democracy is our goal at all. Democracy's have an ugly habbit of not doing as they are told. Look at old enemies France and Germany finding coming ground in standing against the US.

That is the beauty of democracy, the ability to openly disagree. Where would the United States be without France and Germany forcing us to justify our actions? Your argument is a two sided my friend. While Democracy is not our goal, and thank God it is not, I only hope that one day they might be wise enough to fashion something similar for themselves.