[Raven]

Originally Posted by AChimp

Remember, a lot of organs are controlled by the autonomic nervous system, too, and that all operates independent of the brain (Want proof? Command your kidneys to stop working... can't do it, huh?)

Wrong. As I have already stated, the autonomic nervous system controls INVOLUNTARY functions within the body, not independent. The brain still forces the involuntary systems to work. Endocrine system is one of these. The Endocrine system is controlled by the hypothalumus. The Endocrine system includes metabolism;i.e. digestion, ect. This is how metabolism works in adults. As such we can not control digestion.

Originally Posted by AChimp

Then you bring up the point of "injecting a virus" to provoke a reactions. Well, you've admitted it yourself, that the embryo relies on the mother for immunities, so any immune system that would be fighting off the virus would belong to the mother, since it's the mother's blood and antibodies flowing through the embryo at this stage. In fact, during the entire time a baby is in the womb, it's hooked up to the mother's circulator system! Your "embryo reaction" isn't really the embryo's reaction afterall; it is the mother's. The embryo is renting those blood cells, dude. (Here's a good link for some more detailed information: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus).

I don't really feel like explaining the entire immune system, it is far to complex to do so in such a small amount of time. As such here are the basics. Virus infects cell, infected cell has pieces of discared viral DNA within its body. Cell presents discarded pieces on a receptor. It is than picked up by a Cytotoxic T-Cell. Upon which the cell lysed. That's a single process starting from infection of a single cell. There are far more. But my question is do you see the initial reaction? And I will concede that there would be a minor amount of reaction in the cloned human for a certain period of time, until death. But as the cloned human would not have full abilities to maintain life, it would die. And I simple explained this for no reason. Let me ask you a question. Tell me how the clone would have the potential to reproduce?

Originally Posted by AChimp

Now we have arrived at the rights issue. If the clone were alive, then you said it would have rights... but you say that it's unlikely the clone itself counts as alive, so therefore there are no rights. There's no brain for thought to occur in, and therefore, no caring (which you define as "nothing more than chemical signals sent from one portion of the brain to the other, causing a reaction") so we can harvest the organs for our own uses all we want and no one will accuse us of murdering anyone because the clone was never truly alive to be violated to begin with.

I have neither stated, nor given a shit, that either would care. As caring is something based solely off of personal belief. Now to to address the skin statement below, so I don't have to utilize quotes and make a long post even longer. The skin has the same DNA as the rest of that specific human. As such it is merely a part of a greater whole of that human. It does not act separatly, which is what I meant by independence. The embryo on the other hand is the whole. It is the whole culmination of that specific code of DNA. The probability of which for it to come around within the near future, is astronomical. A code separate to that of its mother. Making it a separate living human being.

Originally Posted by AChimp

Well, Raven, that's an interesting theory and I encourage you to conduct research in that area of science, but since there is no scientific evidence to corroborate your theory, it remains unproven and you must rely purely on philosophy and abstractions to explain it.

Like I said I never really gave a shit about caring. I don't even give a shit about personal belief. I am arguing this from the whole of humanity. Something I suggest you do. As what is determined to be law for the whole of humanity can not be based off mere belief. It has to be based off logic and science. For you can not enforce the beliefs of some upon the whole.