[KevinTheOmnivore]

Okay, time to wade through!

Originally Posted by Preechr

Instead of hinging your argument on my revealing the members of a secret cabal of evil Republicans (that you and I both know do not exist) how bout considering for a moment that Republican politicians all carry certain individual amounts of power at any point. I should not be being forced to spell this out for you.....That power comes from many places... guys like DeLay add weight to their opinions because they are serious cash cows. Guys like Frist are listened to because of his position in the party.

Great point. You're right, elected politicians do carry clout. Rather than wasting my time and listing it out for you, let's work with the names you provided.

DeLay, Frist, and let's even throw President Bush's name in there. Out of the three, which one will be making appearances, speaking in GOP districts, and raising money for Republicans more than John McCain?? Who have long-shot candidates in spots like Seattle invited? Who did Gov. Schwarzenegger call to help raise $2.5 million? Who is Rep. Wilson running in her Ads. to help her in her tough fight in NM-1???

When Republicans are in trouble, and need to stress their "independence" they call John McCain. When they want to raise money, they call John McCain. Guys like DeLay could raise their fair share, but old Tommy has been distracted lately. Neither of the gentlemen you mentioned (not even the president for good measure) draws the kind of water that Sen. McCain does.

It's not a Skull and Bones meeting, and you know that's not what I'm saying... so why must you muddy the waters? I'm trying to discuss this, and you're flinging crap.

You keep implying that some group of Republicans will eventually "make the call" on McCain, which will crush his state-by-state infrastructure, force the resignation of top Bush consultants and fundraisers from his team, kill his popularity, and annoint some TBD governor as the likely candidate.

I'd like a little bit more substance than that, sorry.

One second you say McCain's painted as more bi-partisan than he really is because the media loves him, but the next you say he's a viable candidate because the media says so...

Politics is about saying the same thing right, and saying it a million times. That's messaging, that's Tony Schwartz's responsive chord. Remember, I'm drawn to this for twisted personal reasons, I know!

Other GOP candidates, say Romney, Allen, Newt, Rudy, or a TBD governor will enter the race with an instant disadvantage. McCain gets a LOT of unearned media, the kind of media guys like them will have to budget for and spend for. That's a calculation that's made when you run for office. Thus, good candidates might decide to sit it out now, and wait 4-8 years. This happens all of the time, and that's what I meant by the media advantage McCain has.

You know how primaries are decided. You know that so much influence is exerted during those state by state dog and pony shows by EVERYONE that has any sort of stake in the game that the primaries are just big pep-rallies used by the parties to warm the electorate up for the real elections. Primaries are NOT part of the electoral process. The voting IN THE PRIMARIES is for show.

They draw people who are guaranteed to vote on election day. They draw party loyalists. They draw die-hard supporeters of the candidates. They generally draw people, statistically anyway, who are more informed on the issues, more informed on the candidates, and more likely to vote every year.

That's ok by me. Let the folks who stay home watch American Idol and allow the people who care to decide. God bless America.

During the circus in 99, Bush's team could have been punished by the party for their actions toward McCain, but they weren't. That lack of support was a sign of greater support among the party for Bush. That's the simplest example I can give you. It's politics.

They were in the middle of what went down as one of the closest and most contentious presidential elections in our nation's history. I guarantee you there WERE people who wanted to burn Bush for it, but to do so would only hurt him, and yes, the GOP was more concerned with the supposed greater good of taking back the White House (eight years of the great satan Clinton, remember?). Once Bush won, he was the president. Even McCain kept quiet about it. Do you think he did it because he's so humble and likes Bush? Come on....it's politics!

Instead of shrinking government to the size it could be drowned in a bathtub, they are attempting to explode it. People don't vote against something that might not fall apart for another 50 years, so they are speeding up the death process. People will vote for conservative solutions only after the socialist programs have failed.

While your illuminati theory may very well be true, it won't matter much in elections. It doesn't matter when a lot of these Republicans may lose their seats.

McCain will run as a tax cutting fiscal conservative. Let's not get into what he'll actually have to do once he's president, because that rarely has to do with elections. McCain will bend to the power your welfare state just like everyone else does, you'll see.

Don't worry, the plan is still safe, my lord!

McCain is not on the Republican bandwagon. He has rejected the plans tactics and is resolutely... as you have pointed out, linked and hammered home... continued to vote in line with the platform.

The platform is pretty appealing to the base, and as it turns out, plays kind of well with the general public. McCain will lose his liberal appeal, partly b/c the Left is now realizing the monster they've made. McCain will cleverly let the media do his base work for him.....

Republicans run Governors, not Senators. They will eventually run a Governor, not McCain.

AND WHICH MEMBERS OF THE KNOW-NOTHING PARTY WILL MAKE THIS DECISION, SIR!!?

McCain is a 1970's Republican, and the party has moved on. They will not run him for President because he does not support their long-term plan for returning conservative principles to American government by abandoning them completely in the short-term.

This plan can't be stated publicly. Nobody who walks around with an American flag and their "I'm a conservative!" badge would agree to this. So, Republicans are still forced to run like McCain and govern like Bush. Bottom Line.

So, since the message will STILL have to be based around tough security, fiscal responsibility, and (maybe) some Christianly stuff, then it would HAVE to be a backroom, nefarious deal that undercuts McCain....something the American voters are unaware of.

So I ask you again....who makes this decision???

btw, parties go through realignments. Ideologies change. I'm sure you know this, but you seem to think that just because a couple of Republicans think one way it'll stay that way indefinitely.

McCain is a popular guy because the left understands his traditional methods represent their last hope in light of the current WiLdLy SUCCESSFUL Republican strategy, and he is doing a great job of positioning himself as a lead candidate. He is starting WAY too early, which is obviously because he needs to. He knows the GOP can't start nailing down their list of possibles until after the mid-term elections because he knows they will pick among Governors.

Good grief. You give the Democrats far more credit than any Democrat ever would.

Okay, so let's ctach up here. There are now TWO nefarious conspiracies in Washington, each being kept very secret and maintained by the party committees, the members of Congress, and the state parties. The Republicans talk about conservatism but really want liberalism, and the Democrats talk about moderate conservatism because they really don't want liberalism because they know it'll result in liberalism which will ultimately result in super conservatism.

Preech, you should go talk to some folks at the DNC. Go out to the bar with them. If such a complcit plan truly exists, they are totally unaware of it.

Just in case you missed it when I said it RIGHT UP THERE: There is a very good reason McCain is such a darling of the portion of the media that's biased to the left. That reason is that were he to take a lead role in the GOP, the current Republican final solution plan will fail and everything will go back to normal for the Democrats... at least that is the hope. He is not the only Republican politician that is sticking to his guns, but 1999 brought him into the spotlight and he's really good at staying there.

Good grief. Preechr. I mean, good God.

Preech, McCain is popular with the media b/c he wasn't Bush, he addressed popular issues with the Left like campaign finance reform, and through VERY VERY good messaging and campaigning he established himself as an "independent". It is NOT because the Left is on o the secret plot of the Republican Masons.....

Look at your lists and your stats, but also look at the larger picture. This is not what anybody would have expected a Republican run government to look like, is it? The massive contradictions you see between the GOP platform and the results of the past 5 years should not be ignored because they are proof that I am right.

No, they are proof that you have no idea what people want, or how what they say and want can conflict.

People talk a good game, but they like their entitlements. Elected officials learn this the hard ay, and thus get burned! Every official wants to bring back to their district, and if everyone is doing this, the spending goes wild!

I hope you feel better. I mean the cold, and, uh, the "other" stuff too.