[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

Refresh my memory, aren't you the one who constantly compares a suicide bobingin Iraq to a rare abortion clinic bombing in, I dunno, South Dakota???

Ugh. I barely even want to respond to this, if that's all you get from my posts. But no, I think you've missed the point every time you've read something I've written because you apparently have some sort of strange filter built up in your mind to translate "what I say" into "what I really mean". The ONLY point in that comparison is that fanaticism (be it Islamic, fringe Christian, or even secular) in and of itself is as dangerous as a wildfire.

I think your specific problem Ziggy is that you're paralyzed by history and what you perceive to be the great satan's role in this war. At least max acknowledges that we have a "very real enemy" in all of this. I'm not so sure about you, b/c every time it's mentioned that the terrorism we face is closely linked with radical Islam*, and Islamic nations*, and the Middle East*, and Arabs*, and basically Islam* as a whole, you seem to get a little uptight and start reminding us of the crusades ang gee guys, not all muslims are bad.

So wait a minute. You have a problem with me wishing to keep a clear distinction between "radical Islam" and "basically Islam as a whole"? You can stop with all the asterisks, by the way. I really don't need you to say "I swear I'm not a bigot" every time you say something that seems even a bit bigoted.

But I'd hardly say I'm paralyzed by anything here. I still go to work every day. I enjoy my spare time, and generally try to stay out of political bullshit self-gratifying banter such as this, but this forum is an old habit that is hard to break.

We know Ziggy, we know. Now let's have a grownup conversation about it.

What an immature way to call someone immature! Kudos on the (un?)intentional irony there.

There's a sharp distinction between what we do and what thay do. What we MAY have done is criminal, and violates our laws, our mores, and our code of conduct.

This is the rule book they play by. I don't mean this as to say we should overlook the bad things our troops do, but once again.....perspective. We are at war, at war with a "very real enemy"!

Those two wars I mentioned with Max, ya know the ones that are nothing like this one and were far more important? Well we killed a lot of innocent people in one of them, and certainly didn't spare them in the Civil War.

Tell me, does Dresden make us wrong for fighting the fight we did?

I can't even tell what the fuck you're trying to say here. Are you trying to say the Dresdens and Hiroshimas and My Lais are just a necessary part of warfare and I should just get the fuck over it?

Also, why do you keep saying we are "at war with a very real enemy"? We are at war with ideologies here at home, but our troops are really at war with serveral factions of insurgent fighters, not all of whom are motivated purely by "Islamic extremism" let alone "basically Islam as a whole". I don't suppose you would consider that fully understanding their motivations better allows us to eradicate them? Cuz that's my take on it. Our enemy is not "every Muslim kid who might some day become a terrorist." Our enemy in Iraq is composed of many discreet factions, both domestic and foreign. I would think if you've read up on the events leading to Zarqawi's death, you might agree that the lack of true unity in these groups can be to our advantage.

Also, I can't be arsed at this point to find your exact quote, but you asked what this war should look like earlier. My guess, and it's only a guess, since I'm hardly aware of all the details, but this war should be invisible. Like 95% black ops. You dismantle terroist organizations with superior intel and targetted killings. Of course, I don't like those things, but speaking purely pragmatically, I think unconventional enemies warrant unconventional warfare. That last thing you wanna give a guerrilla fighter with a RPG is a tank to shoot at. Now does running that sort of campaign also require 100,000 boots on the ground? I don't know, but I wouldn't think so.