[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

How bold of you, Ziggy! Next you'll be informing us that this whole thing is about certain people who have a disagreement with other people. Maybe this is all about human beings on the planet Earth.

Could you be a little bit more obtuse, you haven't stripped the discussion of all its value yet!

You call this abomination of a clusterfuck a 'discussion'? Could YOU be any more obtuse?!

How many fucking times do I have to say that religion IS a PART of the issue, but not the whole of the issue. How does calling for analysis of other factors "strip the discussion of value"?

Ziggy, who is arguably the most powerful rebel leader in Iraq? Ziggy, when Zarqawi put together his insurgent group, why did he take on the name "Al Qaeda"??? Ziggy, why is it so important if we hope for peace and stability that we have Grand Ayatollah Sistani on our side???

What is your point?

You can try to strip this conversation of its religious significance all you like, maybe it'll appease the p.c. in you. But you do the entire conversation a disservice in the process.

What the fuck are you talking about? I've not once said religion is insignifcant to the issue, retard.

A CLASSIC Ziggy argument. "Hey, I don't like what you're saying, but you mst know it all, so whatever."

No, you obnoxious blowhard. That is NOT my argument, but thank you for putting those words in my mouth, they taste like candy! My arguement is that all of that is fucking irrelevant to what I was saying, because establishing a religious context for the conflict IN NO WAY removes ALL OTHER CONTEXTS. Look, I'll shut up if you can answer this one question with anything but an affirmative: Is it possible that religiously similar factions might not share the same goals, and to that end when they look at us, they will not necessarily say the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

I've told you what I think, and you disagree. I believe the problem is that Islam has fallen into a regressive rut so to speak, and it has allowed if not fostered the situation we have today. Are there other factors? Sure, but it doesn't change this fundamental problem.

Alternative theories?

I don't entirely disagree, but the issues of poverty, lack of opportunity for self-determination, and good old-fashioned local politics account for a good third of the conflict over there. If tomorrow every man, woman, and child woke up to a vision of God telling them that everything any human ever thought about religion was wrong, there would STILL be fighting over there, if over nothing more than who gets to build their houses where.

Really? So rather than taking ou the regimes that finance terrorism, you'd assassinate the extremists who preach hate on the streets of London??? How would that roll with Tony?

Well, Tony would have to be in on it, obviously. Like I said, I don't even like the idea, but I do think it would be more cost-effective. As for regimes that finance terror, again, I do not think tanks and artillery shells are the most cost effective way to deal with them. But it hardly matters what one voter thinks about the spending patterns of the Pentagon, now does it?

What we're doing. I'd like to see more big stick/speak softly stuff involved, and I think we could liberalize Iran in better ways than with bombs. i think another super idea would have been to clean up our mess in Afghanistan (a wise invasion) before we jumped to Iraq (a not so wise invasion).

Now why you gotta be a civil and rational in the closer? Now I feel bad for calling you a retard (but not so bad as to edit it! :P)