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CaptainBubba CaptainBubba is offline
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Old Oct 20th, 2005, 08:39 PM       
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Originally Posted by Preechr
Whether or not you're deterministic or not, you probably believe your actions and existence have some sort of meaning or value.
No. "Meaning" and "value" are abstract human concepts and eman nothing in the context of this coversation.

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The sum of your and everyone else's actions and existence have some sort of meaning or value. That universal value, positive or negative, is the will of whatever is responsible for our existence, whether or not we are in fact are responsible for our own actions.
You are just making stuff up.

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That which has a beginning had a cause, so unless you wish to argue off on a tangent whether the big bang happened (which is possible, but do it with Seth,) the universe exists because of something.
Again, you are simply saying things you wish to be true then going "because its so".

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Something with a will? The existence in which we find ourselves is too perfectly ordered for me to believe it to be for the purpose of random events to take place for random reasons.
This reasoning makes no logical sense. I will steal an idea from Voltaire is you don't mind to illustrate the ridiculousness of what you've just said. Pants fit perfectly around my legs. Thusly I can conclude that legs were formed by god to fit into pants.

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That being said, I believe there is a purpose and therefore a will behind our existence. We have the ability to thwart that will with our own decisions. Were we to act as that will intended, we would be serving that will, which is of higher order than our own, so our actions would be of that will.
Your argument makes absolutely no sense. You've completely ignored everything we've been arguing about or it is simply way past your level of understanding. Sorry if I sound mean but this is so awfully ignorant in the context of our argument that it might make me a bit harsh. You just sound like someone who is so deeply dependent upon religious doctrine that engaging in a conversation about this is pointless because you do not even bother to let your mind digest ideas different than what you currently believe.

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The only time we can be said to be expressing our "free" will is when we are doing that which is not serving our purpose in existence. When we defy God. When we act as God intended, we are serving, not defying God, and then our actions are of God not of us.
Religion is a baseless science and is unarguable. I dont argue with religion because its like arguing that an invisble pink dragon that exists beyond all my senses lives in your garage. Pointless.


Really I understand why its important to you to believe there is purpose to your existence and everything. All I can say is I'm sorry. In truth its not that bad. If you just don't think about it, life can be fun. Most philosophical truths are like that.
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