[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

I'm absoluetly stunned. If you think Social Security is a good investment, then you seriously need to speak to someone that knows a thing about economics.

I said it was a "consistent return investment."

And please, go find someone who knows something about economics, since you clearly aren't capable of being that person....

Originally Posted by The One and Only...

I also like how Kevin is attacking Bubba even though he hasn't addressed my previous points.

"I'll address the rest later, but right now I don't have time."

I figured I'd allow you to complete your thoughts like you said you would, and then respond. However, since you're acting like a sniveling little brat, I guess I'll respond to your incomplete post later. And while you're at it, you should respond to some of my passed-over points, too....

And as for "attacking" CB, please, display an example of this. See, when two people who are in agreement make jabs at someone else, it's called "making points." When someone you disagree with pokes holes in candy land/shoots and ladders ideas, such as cutting programs just for the sake of cutting them, it's called "attacking."

Originally Posted by CaptainBubba

Um... did you even read what I wrote? Whats this about conservatism? I never specified any way of thinking so why are you acting as if I said the country is Conservative? Seriously, did you read what I wrote??

Uhhhh, like, seriously, do you find it effective to...uhhmmm....evade points by, uhhh, pretending to be on the defensive...um. (btw, now I am "attacking," OAO, but what's good for the goose....)

Lets go back and examine what you said CB, since you seem to feel like you've been libeled:

"Our country is not fully Lockean in principle, that is for sure. However its not fully liberal, or conservative, or republican, or democratic. Thats our jobs. We are supposed to take stands as citizens of our country. Its my duty to uphold what I believe in because I believe in it."

And the point I thought I made fairly clear, was that even from that varied spectrum of choices you provided, there is STILL a permeating presence of liberalism throughout the country. Even the free market, classical liberals (who were more like today's Libertarians) believed in the prominent role of government, not merely to serve as a lame duck entity, but rather to serve as an active entity in society. Passive and/or weak government doesn't work any better than government that is too interventionist.

Your point was that government should defend property and liberty. That's it. I disagree with this, and as I've already stated, I feel it's contrary to every notion of civic responsibility.

There are two ways SS can exist when I am of age to recieve my returns:

1. MASSIVE taxing.
2.MASSIVE reductions in benifits.

Both of these mean I will not see the same amount of money that I put into it. Taxpayer money would better be left in their own hands to invest as they please.

You don't need to add massive taxation, as I've said, you need to shift the tax burden. Our birthrates are declining here in America, which means less people will be retiring in generations following the baby boomers. Scrapping SS would be creating a long term solution for a short-term problem....(and I await Vince's well thought out retort to this).

argue all day about which is more "fair" and "reliable", but thats all relative and fairly unprovable. Libraries will always exist unless we go to some effort to make them illegal.

I think the flat out effectiveness and consistency of the U.S. Post office is pretty damn provably, how about we mail each other letters???

And your point about illegality is moot. You said government's role should be defense of liberty and property. Nothing in there about paying for book warehouses....

Libraries are becoming somewhat antiquated with the invention of the Internet, which I would think most agree needs to stay completely out of the hands of the government.

Right, but the one thing a REAL, physical building provides is a place for those lacking internet access the ability to have said access. This will become more important as more civic activities, such as voting, move online....

And whether or not libraries are "antiquated" or not is also moot. Point is, they generally get their money. Nobody wants to run on an "anti-library" platform. Well, with perhaps Libertarians as the exception.

No, they'd be denied the right to the Prussian Militarized style of education that is our public system. I encourage individual learning and privatized schooling.

"Individualized learning," eh? Well I'm all for that. I just hope the average American, with their work week getting longer and their pay check getting smaller, has the time to teach themselves Spanish, calculus, biology, comparative politics, and engineering on their days off.

And privatized schooling exists, and I'm all for it, providing it doesn't take away tax dollars from public schools through voucher programs. Depending upon a completely privatized system to educate our children, IMO, is crazy.