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  #201  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 01:53 PM       
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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post

I doubt they are going to kill everyone with the rationing but we are going to see a lot of deaths nonetheless.
I'm ignoring every other retarded thing you said, but this.

If their aim is not to try to kill everyone of this national group (including themselves), it's not genocide.


Shut up now.
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  #202  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:05 PM       
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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
I'm ignoring every other retarded thing you said, but this.

If their aim is not to try to kill everyone of this national group (including themselves), it's not genocide.


Shut up now.

Once again,

The original question was "Is there really Death Panels in Obamacare" and the answer is, Yes.


I don't know why you're so hung up on this Genocide comment. Here, let me put it like this.......

The US people are a group of individuals that will be affected by the recently discovered Death panels. Meaning the American people will be allowed to die because of it. Meaning a group of individuals from a specific country will die because of the cuts in benefits.

Get it yet? Why does it have to be "everyone" to be genocide? Native Americans are still around and there was a genocide on them. Jewish people are still around and they had a genocide on them.


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No, it's not. Zhukov isn't American.
They are passing similar laws in other countries as well.
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:10 PM       
COMING SOON

MORE IDIOTIC DRIBBLE!

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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:11 PM       
ONCE AGAIN! THIS PARTY NEVER ENDS!!!!
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:12 PM       
ONCE AGAIN!!
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  #206  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:14 PM       
[quote=TheCoolinator;682880]Once again,

The original question was "Is there really Death Panels in Obamacare" and the answer is, Yes.

[quote]

UHHHHHHHHH no. My original question was "why are you using the term 'genocide' when only someone with severe learning disabilities would think to use it as you have?"

Quote:
The US people are a group of individuals that will be affected by the recently discovered Death panels. Meaning the American people will be allowed to die because of it. Meaning a group of individuals from a specific country will die because of the cuts in benefits.
Because there is a difference between "being allowed to die" and the deliberate and forcible elimination of this group.

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Get it yet? Why does it have to be "everyone" to be genocide? Native Americans are still around and there was a genocide on them. Jews are still around and they had a genocide on them.
Had a genocide on them. Christ. Why am I discussing this? The genocide that was committed against those particular groups was not seen through to the end, obviously. Why would Obama target this national group that HE HIMSELF BELONGS TO? For it to be genocide against the US people (your words) then the entirety of that group has to be targeted. If it's not targeting people for their national heritage (or race, religion etc) then it's not genocide.
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:20 PM       
Dont forget "with the intent to wipe out completely"
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  #208  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:22 PM       
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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post

They are passing similar laws in other countries as well.
Which ones? Certainly not mine. Most first world countries already have a working healthcare system.
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  #209  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:30 PM       
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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
UHHHHHHHHH no. My original question was "why are you using the term 'genocide'
That's your question not THE original question.


Quote:
they will be refusing care which may lead to death. Killing by proxy at a MASSIVE stretch.


^ Your quote.

Quote:
The US people are a group of individuals that will be affected by the recently discovered Death panels. Meaning the American people will be allowed to die because of it. Meaning a group of individuals from a specific country will die because of the cuts in benefits.


^ My quote.

This should answer your question.

Quote:
Because there is a difference between "being allowed to die" and the deliberate and forcible elimination of this group.
"Allow to die"

Wouldn't that be....murder? on the US people....which would be....Genocide since it's a specific group of people?


Quote:
Why would Obama target this national group that HE HIMSELF BELONGS TO? For it to be genocide against the US people (your words) then the entirety of that group has to be targeted. If it's not targeting people for their national heritage (or race, religion etc) then it's not genocide.
ummm....Politicians who work for international companies don't care who they harm in their actions. This is common sense. Did Stalin care that he committed genocide against millions of Russian people? No. Because he was an oligarch. He ruled. He wasn't a russian. He was the Leader of the russians. I'm not saying Stalin worked for any kind of corporate enterprise but his space in history is very similar to the callous nature of our present day politicians.

And I'm an American Citizen born here in the united states. My national heritage is that of the USA. I don't understand where you're going with this. It's all very strange.

If the Death Panels (which are real) kill US Citizens then that's a genocide against the US population. No different if it was a genocide against the British or Icelandic or Russian.

Quote:
gen·o·cide
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
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  #210  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:39 PM       
By calling this a genocide you're saying that the goal of Obamacare is to kill all Americans.
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:40 PM       
"The deliberate and systematic extermination" is the part Zhukov is having trouble with. He never once said that the American people as a national group couldnt be the target of genocide. Just that they arent.
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  #212  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:43 PM       
Coolie, describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.
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  #213  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 02:46 PM       
An interesting point for everyone but Coolinator; most of what people think of as Stalin's "genocides" are not in fact genocides. Hundreds of thousands of people were imprisoned, executed, starved or relocated, but because Stalin was part of the team that made up what the UN considers "genocide", they omitted political views alongside race, nation, religion etc from the treatise...

So, while genocides against many ethnic peoples still went on in the USSR; against the Cossacks for example, most people killed were killed because they were an enemy of the state for political or economical reasons, rather than racial or religious ones. Interesting, huh?

Now, back to banging my head against a wall:


Quote:
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national group
By your imagination Death Panels will be responsible for killing people through lack of care. Murder, as you see it. US citizens will die. They wont, however, be targeted by "Death Panels" with aim of eliminating them as a national group.

This is completely absurd.

Are Death Panels rounding up US citizens wherever they find them and killing them? Are US citizens forced to leave their country as refugees because of persecution? Are your Death Panels actively intent on destroying the nation of the USA?

Are they?


ARE THEY REALLY DOING THAT?


Quote:
If the Death Panels (which are real) kill US Citizens then that's a genocide against the US population.
So if some mugger kills two people in a bungled hold up, and those two people are US citizens, is that genocide against the US population? Hell, the mugger might go out and do it again, killing three more people. Again on Sunday, killing an old lady. Genocide, right? I mean, serial killers are committing genocide against the US population. Obviously.
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  #214  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:01 PM       
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Originally Posted by Dimnos View Post
"The deliberate and systematic extermination" is the part Zhukov is having trouble with. He never once said that the American people as a national group couldnt be the target of genocide. Just that they arent.
So, when the healthcare commission (Death panels) start rationing care, who will be affected by this?

If the answer will be the US population then wouldn't that be a form of Genocide, Murder, immoral behavior all done with malice of forethought?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
An interesting point for everyone but Coolinator; most of what people think of as Stalin's "genocides" are not in fact genocides. Hundreds of thousands of people were imprisoned, executed, starved or relocated, but because Stalin was part of the team that made up what the UN considers "genocide", they omitted political views alongside race, nation, religion etc from the treatise...
Anyone else see a problem with this statement? ^^^^

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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
So, while genocides against many ethnic peoples still went on in the USSR; against the Cossacks for example, most people killed were killed because they were an enemy of the state for political or economical reasons, rather than racial or religious ones.
Were they citizens of the USSR? Were they part of a national group of individuals? Thus....Genocide?

Quote:
gen·o·cide
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
By your imagination Death Panels will be responsible for killing people through lack of care. Murder, as you see it.
Sorry, I have to stop you right there. If you allow someone to die because of lack of care....then in a court of law that would be seen as murder. Especially when you're a public servant and your job is to protect the well being of the people whom you work for. This is common knowledge.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
US citizens will die. They wont, however, be targeted by "Death Panels" with aim of eliminating them as a national group.
If you target and ration US citizens health benefits.......what do you think will happen to the individual in question when they need a serious operation and or expensive medication to continue living?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Are Death Panels rounding up US citizens wherever they find them and killing them? Are US citizens forced to leave their country as refugees because of persecution? Are your Death Panels actively intent on destroying the nation of the USA?
They don't need to. They'll just deny their health benefits. No need to hunt them. If they need insulin or an operation....they'll just say "no". Simple as that.....hence why they're called DEATH PANELS. lol. Wow, you're pretty dense my friend. Sharp as a marble too. :
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:05 PM       
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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
If the Death Panels (which are real) kill US Citizens then that's a genocide against the US population. No different if it was a genocide against the British or Icelandic or Russian.

Quote:
gen·o·cide
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I'm assuming since its going to ration the care of the US population then the US people will be dying from this.

I doubt they are going to kill everyone with the rationing but we are going to see a lot of deaths nonetheless.
[emphasis mine]

You call it genocide, but earlier admitted that it's not. Make up your mind, dude.

As for "rationing healthcare = death panels", I was on an HMO plan about 5 years ago (before anyone ever uttered that hackneyed phrase, "death panel") that rationed my family's healthcare. GODS, WE WERE SUBJECTED TO A DEATH PANEL AND NARROWLY EXCAPED GENOCIDE!!!! WHAT'S WORSE IS THAT WE NEVER EVEN KNEW IT!!!!

Coolie, you really need to read your posts for comprehension before hitting the "submit reply" button. I'm not calling you names nor am I being mean spirited. I'm making a kind and gentle suggestion that could help you from yourself.
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  #216  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:06 PM       
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Coolie, describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.
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  #217  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:12 PM       
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You call it genocide, but earlier admitted that it's not. Make up your mind, dude.
I believe it's a form of genocide no matter how you twist my words. The rationing of care by this new commission will be a federally mandated death board. With immunities of course.

Rationing care against the US population = Genocide. Don't know how else to explain it to you people.


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Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
As for "rationing healthcare = death panels", I was on an HMO plan about 5 years ago (before anyone ever uttered that hackneyed phrase, "death panel") that rationed my family's healthcare.
Why didn't you take them to court? Why didn't you fight for your family? Or find another insurance plan?

See, you need to read what's going on. From the top, The new and improved government death panel WILL be in charge of deciding what tests, treatments, cures, and surgeries are allowed. If they are NOT allowed.....pay close attention now.....then your insurance...here it comes.......WONT COVER YOU. Tada! Get it? So, they'll deny you before you even need any of these medical wonders to keep on living.

Please, Read the Article. On the Death Panels and look up Peter Orzsag
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  #218  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:16 PM       
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Originally Posted by TheCoolinator View Post
I believe it's a form of genocide no matter how you twist my words. The rationing of care by this new commission will be a federally mandated death board. With immunities of course.

Rationing care against the US population = Genocide. Don't know how else to explain it to you people.
You can't explain it because it is not logical. Rationing of care is not the systematic and intended extermination of Americans. The goal of Obamacare is not for everyone to die and no more people will die from it than from the previous system.
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  #219  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:21 PM       
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You can't explain it because it is not logical. Rationing of care is not the systematic and intended extermination of Americans. The goal of Obamacare is not for everyone to die and no more people will die from it than from the previous system.
So a deliberate and systematic rationing of care for US citizens through federally mandated Death boards is not genocide?
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  #220  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:22 PM       
No, there has to be killing of some type involved, honey.
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:25 PM       
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No, there has to be killing of some type involved, honey.
Has there been any deaths involved in the Private run Insurance death panels? If so....do you believe there will be deaths involved in the new Obamacare death panels?
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  #222  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:27 PM       
The Colonel didnt twist your words. He quoted them exactly has you wrote them.

The rationing of health care doesnt equate to genocide no matter how you slice that pie.

Hell the tuskegee experiment where they knowingly and intentionally gave syphilis to a bunch of blacks and withheld medication by tricking them into taking placebos even when it resulted in death, cant be considered genocide. :folleyes




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Coolie, describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.
Still waiting on an answer to this.
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  #223  
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:27 PM       
I'm sure that there have been deaths due to lack of funds/rationing of care, and there will continue to be. This is not genocide, however, because its goal is not to kill Americans, let alone all Americans. You're just trying really hard to not be wrong.
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:29 PM       
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Has there been any deaths involved in the Private run Insurance death panels? If so....do you believe there will be deaths involved in the new Obamacare death panels?
EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE DEATHS INVOLVED THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GENOCIDE.
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Old Apr 29th, 2010, 03:32 PM       
Coolie, as Zhukov wrote before, if a serial killer kills Americans, does such a thing constitute genocide?
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