Americans and the "immigration debate"

[Preechr]

Originally Posted by Chojin

There's a reason they're called 'illegals', you know; It isn't just a fancy gang name.

It definitely feels like an invasion, and I live on the east coast, pretty far from the border. Everything I buy these days has instructions in spanish and english. I work on a construction site as part of the only non-illegal labor force there. Whatever the reason, it is still trespassing. Many Americans have a "come on my property and you's gon' get shot" attitude, and these people are basically coming into your neighborhood and throwing a block party. In spanish. With festive outfits. And we can all pretty much agree that hispanic music is terrible.

In my opinion they should be deported. There are PLENTY of Americans who WOULD 'deign' to do manual labor, and it is neither this country's fault nor duty to enrich these peoples' otherwise harder lives.

But then, no-one would have an opinion if they had all the facts.

I feel your pain. I used to work in construction as well, but the thing that always got me was that the ratio of American (black or white) work crews to Latin ones was always so dramatically skewed. I remember that the Anglos and the Negros sure worked as if they didn't want to be there, and I remember that the labor crews I did hire that originated south of the border tended to be pretty reliable in contrast.

That was several years ago, though... before they learned skilled trades like HVAC and Electrical. I can only imagine that by now the ratio in a lot of regions has become so skewed as to have rendered American labor crews nearly non-existant. If you are on one of the ones that are left, it's gotta be a lonely job site for a non-Latino.

That being said, the cultural differences between them and us I'd write off to normal human reaction to the situation in which our laws have left them. Ten years? Isn't that a bit excessive for a probationary period?

I'm a libertarian capitalist. I see no reason whatsoever to deny whomever wants it the American Economy as long as they are willing to participate in some sort of positive regard. I am part immigrants from many places and part Native. I can look back in American history and see that every wave of immigrants from every part of the world was in their turn discriminated against and oppressed for profit in much the same way our latest batch is.

We've even gone so far as to find our latest whipping boys within just a couple of years ago, with our wonderful little election referendum on gay marriage. It seems that whenever we find any opportunity to do so We The People, those that are born in the land that first implemented the concept that all our rights are born within us regardless of any other circumstances, just can't resist the temptation to deny the natural born rights of anyone we can.

EVERY single batch of immigrants that's ever washed up on our shores faced the same two-faces of America, from the Chinese to the Irish to the Thai. We despised them and then forced them into labor, and they eventually applied themselves to some ignored section of our American lifestyles, taking it over.

Just as gas prices go up EVERY summer and there's always a new reason why, Meso and South American immigrants are just the latest invasion of "other." It's just a bunch of political bullshit between now and once everybody's accepted it and moved on the the next group of victims.

[Johnny Couth]

One of my music teachers was canadian, and he worked illegally in the music department of my school for two months, until he finally got his work visa. They would never charge him, or the school for providing him with a job, as felons because he is a) canadian, b) white, c) middle class.

[kahljorn]

How long does it take to get a work visa or some other right to live in the USA?

Seems most people are misunderstanding it, or maybe I'm misunderstanding them, but I don't think it takes any longer than 2-3 years. I think there's also different programs that work faster.

[Carnivore]

I'll never disparage anyone who comes here to earn an honest living, pay taxes, and respect the law. I confess that I do become a little... irked when someone residing in this country does not speak English (I have to deal with this at work almost daily), but usually the second generation, educated in American schools, is bilingual, so it tends to correct itself over time. These people we want. We need to make it easier for these people to get the documentation they need to stay and eventually become citizens. If they let their visas expire by accident, let it slide. I got caught driving with an expired license once. I just hadn't got around to renewing it. The magistrate told me to fix it and let me off. Same deal.

I can't truly hate the ones that come here illegally because we don't (from what I understand) make it easy for them to be here legally. They also irk me, however, because they do not pay taxes and are given free healthcare and other services. We need to take away their excuse that it's too hard to do things the right way. Once that's done, the ones who still come here illegally should be loaded onto a giant trebuchet and launched back over the border.

It's all well and good to have your little flag from the old country (in which your great grandparents actually lived) so long as it's in its proper place, below the flag of the USA.

[Preechr]

There is no reason we couldn't set up a system where immigrants could be thoroughly vetted within about 60 days upon entry into this country. If we want to get all uptight about it, put one of those tracking anklets on em, like they use for people under house arest, or maybe even stick em in one of our closed down military bases so we can run them through a citizenship boot camp.

Concerned about overloading our social welfare systems? Put their citizenship on a provisional basis for five years or so where nothing is free. Worst case scenario, they can always run north to Canada's open arms for a free lunch. Worried that they won't learn the language? Require it as a condition of full citizenship. You can do the same thing with healthcare by requiring them to purchase and retain health insurance. If we can submit them to the red-tape they currently are subjected to, I think it's pretty safe to say we could do whatever we want and get away with it.

Any legitimate concerns anyone has about immigration can be addressed rationally. That is not what this little crapfest is about. Our legislators are not working on fixing any problems right now. They are creating a boogey man to be burned in effigy for the elections. Those that cannot govern with leadership based in reason manipulate with fear and prejudice.

As I said before, we have a bad tendancy toward persecuting anyone we can whenever we can gin up an appropriate seeming excuse to do so. OUR rights are God-given, but everybody else has to get them from us.

[kahljorn]

"There is no reason we couldn't set up a system where immigrants could be thoroughly vetted within about 60 days upon entry into this country."

What does vetted mean? Also, I think the reason it takes so long is because, first off, there's probably tons of people trying to immigrate and there's a line(there actually is a line, and a list that shows where you are in the line to gain a visa). Also, they are doing criminal/background checks and those sometimes take a while, especially, I'm assuming, if it's from another country and there's a huge line of people. The wait is a bit ridiculous, though.

"If we want to get all uptight about it, put one of those tracking anklets on em, like they use for people under house arest, or maybe even stick em in one of our closed down military bases so we can run them through a citizenship boot camp. "

I like both of those ideas, and with your suggestion of "Vetting" them maybe we could put one of those animal tracking devices on them when we get their immunizations done.

"we have a bad tendancy toward persecuting anyone we can whenever we can gin up an appropriate seeming excuse to do so. OUR rights are God-given,"

Persecuting and trying to protect our "god-given rights" while maintaining our current life-style are two completely different things. However, I do agree that many people are probably harboring irrational feelings on this subject.

Simply changing the immigration policy isn't so simple. There's many factors to consider, including the ramifications a few million new people will add to the stress of the country, economically and culturally. I'd be interested in hearing what types of effects propsed solutions would have, if people even think like that.

[cba1067950]

Originally Posted by Preechr

There is no reason we couldn't set up a system where immigrants could be thoroughly vetted within about 60 days upon entry into this country. If we want to get all uptight about it, put one of those tracking anklets on em, like they use for people under house arest, or maybe even stick em in one of our closed down military bases so we can run them through a citizenship boot camp.

Concerned about overloading our social welfare systems? Put their citizenship on a provisional basis for five years or so where nothing is free. Worst case scenario, they can always run north to Canada's open arms for a free lunch. Worried that they won't learn the language? Require it as a condition of full citizenship. You can do the same thing with healthcare by requiring them to purchase and retain health insurance. If we can submit them to the red-tape they currently are subjected to, I think it's pretty safe to say we could do whatever we want and get away with it.

Any legitimate concerns anyone has about immigration can be addressed rationally. That is not what this little crapfest is about. Our legislators are not working on fixing any problems right now. They are creating a boogey man to be burned in effigy for the elections. Those that cannot govern with leadership based in reason manipulate with fear and prejudice.

As I said before, we have a bad tendancy toward persecuting anyone we can whenever we can gin up an appropriate seeming excuse to do so. OUR rights are God-given, but everybody else has to get them from us.

its funny because ethically letting them into the country so we can treat them like criminals isnt really much better than deporting them as criminals. im sure no one would care either way. i guess its better to be an american criminal than a mexican citizen.