Captain N, the Gamemaster

[James]

Helm is an awesome dude.


Colored

[Helm]

extended arm too short, bent arm can't bend that way, very very unclean linart, but definately not hopeless. The pose is very static, and his frame very upright. A little slouching would fit the character better.

[Supafly345]

Was captain N made of clay?

[glowbelly]

for someone who wants to become an awesome artist, james, you sure don't know how to take constructive criticism.

seriously.

you take a risk and finally post something and helm tells you what he sees wrong with it so you can fix it and you cry about him being mean. he was being helpful. take his advice and rework what you posted and try again.

or give up, because you'll never be even a slightly good artist if you can't take advice.

[Anonymous]

We need to get Erika Crystal or Terra in here to say something nice so he'll put it back up

[Rez]

i actually depend on helm to tell me when i've finally lost it and start putting out crap that's uninteresting or just dumb.

you, james, need to listen to him, because that's how you get better.



for an asshole, your ego sure is fragile.

[Helm]

Listen james, sorry if I sounded like an asshole. I'm used to giving critique straight and all that. It wasn't bad and I think you could show it to the rest of the boards.

[James]

Actually, I do appreciate the critiquing, Helm. Anyway, the image will stay as is (It was for a thread on Something Awful - Turn cartoon characters into monsters), but all the comments will be taken into consideration.

Extended arm is too short - Agreed, and I can't believe I didn't see it myself. As much as I complain about my lack of skill, things like that, I DO see, yet I didn't see it this time, and that pisses me off.

Bent arm can't bend that way - How so? The bent arm seems alright to me, but not having a source of reference for the pose, I'm open to any answer. The only thing I personally see that bugged me was the index finger is being shown from too much of a top view. And I would also try to elongate the arm a little bit, and get the elbow a bit more defined.

Unclean lineart - Don't exactly understand this comment. I'm assuming the "unclean lineart" comment is in reference to the style it was drawn in, but it'd seem odd for you to criticize the style I chose for the image. Only other thing I can think of would be you're commenting on how some details are undefined and hard to indentify (like the hand and cuff on the gun hand), which I'll again agree with.

Pose and frame - It was kind of the point for this piece. He's just supposed to be standing there and pointing his Zapper at you. I initially was thinking of a more dynamic, creature-esque pose, but I preferred the idea of it possessing a great deal of humanity - hence the upright position. Also, dynamic drawing, I'm not that great at. You're lucky I even drew the gun being pointed straight ahead.

[Helm]

Here's an edit explaining what I mean about clean-ness. Mainly look at the head. You can go as filthy as you want, but it's all texture. The idea is, there is ONE, DEFINED COUNTOUR at all times. Go nuts INSIDE the form, but the form should always pop out and be easily communicated to the viewer. I explained what I ment about the bent arm too, and rearranged the fingers in a more probable position. You should never work on a white background. It's impossible to colour properly, everything comes out too bright. Also, a character such as this should be worked even from pure black, so as to be more threatening. I also do not know who this character is, so excuse me if I didn't remain too faithful. I think for example, that the eyes really add to it.



Hope you don't mind the edit.

[ScruU2wice]

try angling the gun a little so you can tell the density of it and helm already did it but shorten the fingers on the gun hand. I think signing it on the jacket wasn't too good of an Idea

The colored one is really good. I actually liked the scratchy lines of the original. you got the sholders pretty good too. It's hard to just talking about all the things you did right because you did it right and you don't notice it as obviously

[Marine]

Captain M* Dah Game Master












*M:Marine

[James]

Originally Posted by Helm

Here's an edit explaining what I mean about clean-ness. Mainly look at the head. You can go as filthy as you want, but it's all texture. The idea is, there is ONE, DEFINED COUNTOUR at all times. Go nuts INSIDE the form, but the form should always pop out and be easily communicated to the viewer. I explained what I ment about the bent arm too, and rearranged the fingers in a more probable position. You should never work on a white background. It's impossible to colour properly, everything comes out too bright. Also, a character such as this should be worked even from pure black, so as to be more threatening. I also do not know who this character is, so excuse me if I didn't remain too faithful. I think for example, that the eyes really add to it.

Hope you don't mind the edit.

I understand what you mean about the defined contour, and I figured that's what you meant. I agree. My excuse for this being it was a rough job done for the thread submission, and I wasn't necessarily pulling out all my knowledge (though there's a good chance I wouldn't have anyway). It is something I need to focus on more if I plan on doing "legitimate" drawings.

I also see what you did with the arm, and I think that was also a fault of the lack of defined contour. The scribbled lines were going a little too wild and too far, and might have made the arm look disjointed.

The gun hand, I think I was trying to convey a sense that this creature was a bit stiff (hence the upright position), and therefore couldn't put the strength in his hand to really GRAB the gun, but just loosely hold it like a asian hooker performing a slow, loving handjob. That's a thought of retrospect when looking at your version though. Perhaps it's just a thought I need to develop more and convey better?

The white background was intended because, as you said, it made the colors seem brighter (going on the colored version, which was just an afterthought in itself). This was meant to reflect the bright colors of children's cartoons. The creature isn't supposed to necessarily look threatening. If anything, he's a sympathetic, tormented shell. I think the best way to say it would be "Captain N... what happened?" (In fact, I got a similar "Captain N, why?!" comment on the forums.) Same goes for the eyes. I just wanted these empty-looking holes, because I felt it fit the intended purpose of the drawing.

I'm not trying to pull excuses out of my ass here. These are thoughts I had, and I'm throwing them out to you so I can get your feedback on these thoughts. You obviously know what you're doing, but I'm wondering if that necessarily means I don't know what I'm doing.

[Helm]

No, it certainly doesn't. But there's a reasoning for almost anything an artist does, you don't have to explain it every time. I'm confident you'll filter my critique and put the bits you need to good use, and discard others, I don't mind this. So in a way, it's not necessary to explain your reasoning on why you didn't do stuff in the same way I did on the edit. But at the same time, don't get too comfortable in your entrenched artistic view of how things should be done, because that's also a comfort zone. Your view is based around, and influenced by what you're capable of doing. Like I used to go "fuck colour. I never want to work with colour,. Black and white, bitch!" when I started out mainly because I was shit afraid of colours and everything I've tried up to that point was horrible with them. Be daring, try different things.

and I wasn't necessarily pulling out all my knowledge

Always try your best, no matter how good the end result is. I think that's important.

That's a thought of retrospect when looking at your version though. Perhaps it's just a thought I need to develop more and convey better?

It wasn't so much an issue of how the hand grasped the gun, it was more an issue of the fingers being too long, having too many joints and shit. I didn't edit it because I thought it should grab the gun better, I edited it because it should at least look somewhat realistic in grabbing it to start with. Although I'm pretty sure my hand wasn't very realistic, but it was a quick edit. And yeah, your intention in this case didn't come through a lot because it was hidden behind the 'omg those fingers look broken! a lot!' that i was thinking when I first saw it.

The white background was intended because, as you said, it made the colors seem brighter (going on the colored version, which was just an afterthought in itself).

When colouring b&w lineart, drop the brightness of the piece by like, 50 bits in photoshop so you have an even gray tone all over. Then paint directly on it. I can see what you're saying about the white, but even if you wanted this to look comic, then you should have gone with a jolly green and blue horizon landscape or something. Not pure white. Never pure white. There's no pure white in nature.