Pope Calls for All Catholics to Fast on March 5 Against War

[Ronnie Raygun]

Those people make me absolutly sick. ....... .They make me have visions of slamming their head in a car door until theirs nothing left but a bloody stump.

........Then I regain my senses.

[mburbank]

If a homosexual accepts Jesus Christ as his savior and follows the lords will in every way, but has a lifelong same sex relationships and doesn't think it was wrong, does he go to heaven or hell when he dies?

[slavemason]

The answer to the reoccurring question of salvation is always going to depend on who you ask. Unfortunately the majority of Christians that I've spoken with, get most of their doctrine from the preacher instead of any scripture. And the preachers tell them that homosexuality is an abomination. A homosexual would only go to heaven if they lived a lie for the remainder of their life, and of course accepted Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
Of course, I live in the Bible Belt and we aren't know for our cultural diversity.
I find myself interested in the Immaculate Conception. Got any thoughts on that or should I start a new thread? I swear I'm not trying to introduce smut. I've heard interesting theories involving the ear.

Multiple edits due to my terrible proofreading abilities.

[El Blanco]

According to the Scripture, homsexuality is a sin. However, the way I was raised (Irish Catholic parents and 12 years of Cqatholic school), I picked up that hate mongering, bigotry and murder are far worse sins. Those are far more destructive to the community.

Do some people honestly expect me to believe that Jim Jones has a better shot at heaven than a morally good person who happens to stick their genitals in the wrong place on another consentual adult?

[Mockery]

This is Doopa on Mock's account

According to the Scripture, homsexuality is a sin.

the scripture also says people should own slaves
actually the "scripture" says a lot of shit.

[El Blanco]

Never does it say that people should own slaves. There are references to figures having servants, but thats it.

The one thing that people like to harp on is St Paul,s line about slaves staying with their masters. That wasn't a condoning of slavery. It was to illustrate how people shouldn't be worrying about their earthly bonds and focus on their souls.

[Miss Modular]

I really don't think the current situation in the Catholic Church has much to do with Homosexuals so much as it does with the vow of celibacy priests have to take upon ordination. My godmother's uncle was a priest, but he ended up leaving the preisthood because he wanted the company of a woman. It was either that, or become an alcoholic. I've known a few other priests who have left the priesthood for the very same reason.

[AChimp]

The Scripture tells us that we have to sacrifice animals and who to stone to death on what grounds. There's also an awful lot in there about various kinds of sores.

[El Blanco]

AChimp: Christ put an end to all that.

Mod: My uncle was a priest for over 60 years. He had temptations and cravings, but he focused that energy on serving God and helping the community. I had a friend who wrote a thesis on the reasons for the recent troubles in the cloth.

And, in Africa, Catholic priests are allowed to marry. The Church just keeps it quiet.

[Miss Modular]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

Mod: My uncle was a priest for over 60 years. He had temptations and cravings, but he focused that energy on serving God and helping the community. I had a friend who wrote a thesis on the reasons for the recent troubles in the cloth.

And, in Africa, Catholic priests are allowed to marry. The Church just keeps it quiet.

Oh, don't get me wrong. There are plenty of Priests who are able to take a vow of celibacy and keep it. That's awfully tough thing to do, and I commend them for it. But I wish they'd allow marriage, even if the guidelines were extremely strict. I think it would keep more Priests from leaving the Priesthood...or worse.

[Anonymous]

Never does it say that people should own slaves. There are references to figures having servants, but thats it.

Exodus 21
1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.
2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.


Leviticus 25
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying,

44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

[ItalianStereotype]

the scriptures are influenced by the hand that writes them. just because it provides for slavery in an age where slavery was a real part of life doesnt mean the overall message should be discarded.

[Anonymous]

the scriptures are influenced by the hand that writes them.

ok first of all, that is your interpretation. There are many Christian who believe in the infallibility of the bible - that it is Gods word. As a matter of fact I think raygun is one of them so let him come in here and tell you how not christian you are

just because it provides for slavery in an age where slavery was a real part of life doesnt mean the overall message should be discarded.

that is the dumbest excuse ever.

[ItalianStereotype]

i wasnt making any excuses. its just like a line-item veto, if you dont like one part, discard it and follow the rest as best you can.....within reason of course.

[mburbank]

I totally agree the bible is a historical document and needs to be read for it's overall moral messages and should always be read in it's historical context.

But there are a LOT of folks, manyof them currently holding office, who don't view the bible in reletaistic terms.

[Anonymous]

I totally agree the bible is a historical document and needs to be read for it's overall moral messages and should always be read in it's historical context.

My problem with it is that I don't really see there are consistant overall moral messages - at least not until mr. j shows up. I am one of those people that totally sees old and new testament as totally different and not belonging together at all.
Old God isn't about love or living your lives in peace and understanding you are not better than anyone else, and knowing that rituals will not "save you". And then Jesus came along and screwed it all up.
So yeah, my problem is that people tend to pick and choose whatever the hell they want (specifically old testament stuff) to use to back up their own idea of bad and good. Like the homosexuality thing...

and then say This is the word of God.

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

the scriptures are influenced by the hand that writes them. just because it provides for slavery in an age where slavery was a real part of life doesnt mean the overall message should be discarded.

But that part about killing gays was dead-on, right?

How about eternal damnation? Was the lord just making up that crap for the 'people of the time?'

If you're going to sing and dance for your silent superhero in the sky, you might as well pay attention to him.

[El Blanco]

What parts do you follow? I was taught the stuff that consistently follows the two major commandments.

Homosexuality is a sin, but stoning them is worse.

Yes, there is eternal damnation. If you don't want to exist with God, then He will grant you your wish.

[Anonymous]

I want a toyota matrix.

God needs to grant that wish first.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"If a homosexual accepts Jesus Christ as his savior and follows the lords will in every way, but has a lifelong same sex relationships and doesn't think it was wrong, does he go to heaven or hell when he dies?"

If a person is homosexual he will not be follwing the lords will in every way......just like every other Christain. However, the person will realize what homosexuality is and condemn it and ask Christ to help defeat it....just like every other sin.

[Anonymous]

omfg

Heaven or hell, Rolando?

[mburbank]

According to Naldo, if a Homosexual does not "condemn it (his homosexuality)and ask Christ to help defeat it", he has not actually accepted Crhist as his savior, no matter what else he does. If you have not accepted Christ as your savior, you are going to hell.

Ergo, if Mother Theresa is a Lesbian and doesn't ask jesus to help her stop it, her selfless lifelong work with Lepers will not keep her from burning in eternal Hellfire.

I think that's kind of sweet. Now, if you KNOW what you're doing is WRONG and you ASK for God's help, but you still keep doing it but you're ORRY, maybe you go to heaven. But should you die believeing that maybe Jesus didn't care who you had sex as long as you did well by others and accepted his divinity and sacrafice, well, hellfire for you.

Naldo, I assume believes, that if you TRULY accepted Jesus, you would know that he DOES care what you do with your sex parts VERY MUCH and He'd help you stop. If you don't KNOW this, then no matter what you might think, Jesus has NOT entered your heart nd told made you know his STRONG feelings about the SINFUL application oif your sex bits.

Naldo will not put it in bald terms, even though he has said all you need to do is ask him a direct question.

so, lets test this.

Q; WILL ALL UNREPENTANT HOMOSEXUALS GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY NO MATTER WHT ELSE THEY DO IN EVERY NON-SEXUAL ASPECT OF THEIR LIVES?

That is a simple yes or no question.

[Ronnie Raygun]

YES.

Because you can't get to heaven by works alone. You need Christ.

[Anonymous]

God is such a jerk

[kellychaos]

As much as I realize that you'll never keep religion from being involved in a person's beliefs, I thought that part of the reason our American ancestors came here was the belief that church would be separated from state therefore ensuring that they would not be persecture for their religion nor would the church manipulate the government as it had done in europe during the middle ages.