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  #126  
MLE MLE is offline
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Old Dec 18th, 2010, 10:06 PM       
When deciding the sides of who wins a debate, I don't just consider the points that are made, but also whether or not the person acted like a child or not- resorting to petty insults and such.

Just thought you'd like to know how you come across to everyone else, Mr. Garn.
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  #127  
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Old Dec 18th, 2010, 10:11 PM       
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And by the way, anyone thick enough to honestly believe communism is a good thing despite it repeatedly failing everywhere it is implemented has no right whatsoever telling anyone their arguments are retarded.
Where has communism ever actually been implemented? Or are you just talking about the governments that claim that they are "socialist" and "communist" even as a handful of elites exploit the labor of the proletariat?
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  #128  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 03:05 AM       
If you're done then be done; every thread that I post an opinion in doesn't have to eventually make it's way back to how wrong my political ideas are.

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First and foremost, I am enjoying this discussion immensely. A ton of good stuff was said in the last 24 hours and I am sorry I missed out on it till now
What happened?
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  #129  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 05:11 AM       
I think they make a good point though. how valid can your political views be if they all involve your religious view
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  #130  
Pentegarn Pentegarn is offline
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 06:04 AM       
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Originally Posted by MLE View Post
When deciding the sides of who wins a debate, I don't just consider the points that are made, but also whether or not the person acted like a child or not- resorting to petty insults and such.

Just thought you'd like to know how you come across to everyone else, Mr. Garn.
Oh like when Zhukov called me retarded or said I think the holocaust should have been covered up?

But why would I expect any sort of consistency from you, that would be silly

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What happened?
I think I just answered that one for you
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  #131  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 06:12 AM       
No, I said your arguments are getting retarded (Julian Assange is a cyber terrorist thief, and wikileaks is a dedicated anti-American propaganda machine - really? ) and only asked you whether the holocaust should have been uncovered or not - since you were saying that governments should have the right to keep whatever secrets they deem necessary.
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  #133  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 06:22 AM       
I wasn't implying anything other than what I said. The fact that you think wikileaks can't be trusted (or that's what I assume you are saying) because Julian Assange hacks into US military computers and steals secret documents IS retarded.
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  #134  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 12:26 PM       
So your big defense of Assange is he didn't directly hack things and steal information himself? That others did it for him? That he created a place that encourages these acts therefore his hands are washed of these actions?

Sorry, that defense doesn't work. But since you like holocaust comparisons so much, let's use it right back on you to show you why. Hitler ordered the killing of 6 million Jewish people, and then let his men carry out the orders, so by your belief that the burden of guilt belongs only on those who directly acted, that would absolve him of the Holocaust. Yet, history disagrees with you, and so do I
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  #135  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 01:56 PM       
I think that Zhukov thinks that you're saying that the information that wikileaks released is not credible or something and I think that you think that military secrets and crap like that which would get people killed should not be released to the public, but I have yet to see any information released that would in fact pose a grave threat to national security. Everything that I have read in these leaks is largely information that anyone semi-interested in foreign relations and US politics would be able to infer or safely assume just from reading about it over time from the general media.

This includes the list of facilities which are listed as being vital to the United State's security in the leaks. Ports? Oil pipelines? Manufacturing plants? Mines? Communication systems? OH WOW THANK YOU WIKI LEAKS I WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOWN THESE THINGS COULD BE IMPORTANT OR THEIR LOCATIONS WITHOUT YOU

Because I'm sure that terrorists and other states don't have access to an online search engine, maps or common sense but do have access to wikileaks.
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  #136  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 03:33 PM       
why put all of the work into searching when you can just pull up wikileaks and have everything you need? Wikileaks is like a superwalmart for terrorists
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  #137  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 03:48 PM       
well so is google, then
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  #138  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 04:16 PM       
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why put all of the work into searching
gahoiefaho
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  #139  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 04:36 PM       
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Actually, I am going to just say I am tried of warning you about what total transparency will do. If you can't, or you refuse to see the big picture, if 'social justice' is more important to you than life, so be it. The only way to fix the sort of destructive mentality that I am seeing is to simply quit trying to stop it, quit trying to reason with those who refuse to see. Instead, I will let it happen

So go on, bang the drum, get your victory against the big bad governments of the world. Millions will suffer, but you'll satisfy your indignation at all the injustice of the world so who cares about those people right?

But in the end, know what will happen?

Something worse will take its place. it won't just be America that falls though, who will buy the world products if America falls?

Enjoy the destroyed world you are screaming for, but understand this, every thing bad that happens as a result will be greeted with a big fat I told you so, all of it. Every single event. So sit in your little inclusive thinktanks, whine about fairness, act like your ideals that history has repeatedly proven cannot be will work this time when it has yet to, and when you find out how unfair 'total fairness' actually turns out to be, I will at least be able to take solace in the fact that you too will suffer from your own hubris.

Once that happens, maybe those of you who refuse to care about the consequences will have learned something, the ones left alive after the world is embroiled in war, famine, and death anyway
Will the world end because of WW3? Alien attacks? A Meteor??? Nuclear bombs???
NO YOU FOOLS ITS FROM TOO MUCH TRANSPARENCY!
THERE IS NOTHING AS DESCTRUCTIVE AS FAIRNESS AND TRANSPARENCY!!!
PENTEGARN WILL SAY "I TOLD YOU SO!" FOR HE HATH FORESEEN THE APOCALYPSE
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  #140  
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Old Dec 19th, 2010, 05:48 PM       
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gahoiefaho
what, like google-searching is hard or something
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  #141  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 01:04 AM       
sometimes
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  #142  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 01:45 AM       
man they should just mandate links to tvtropes be put on everything wikileaks posts, then everyone will be too distracted to do terrorism based on their information
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  #143  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 05:53 AM       
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  #144  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 06:41 AM       
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Originally Posted by Pentegarn View Post
So your big defense of Assange is he didn't directly hack things and steal information himself? That others did it for him? That he created a place that encourages these acts therefore his hands are washed of these actions?

Sorry, that defense doesn't work. But since you like holocaust comparisons so much, let's use it right back on you to show you why. Hitler ordered the killing of 6 million Jewish people, and then let his men carry out the orders, so by your belief that the burden of guilt belongs only on those who directly acted, that would absolve him of the Holocaust. Yet, history disagrees with you, and so do I
"Your belief that the burden of guilt belongs only to those who directly acted..."

Ah, no. Stop making things up. You've only come to that conclusion through a warping of your own ideas and opinions. Assange neither hacked for these things, nor told other people to hack or steal it. Christ, nothing was hacked into or stolen - it was LEAKED. Wikileaks didn't need to steal it since it was GIVEN TO THEM by people wishing to LEAK the information. Those people in turn had it given to them or put in their responsibility.

Now, which is it - Assange steals military secrets, or he has people steal it for him? Either way it's dumb, but I want to know what you are saying here. While you are there, where are you getting your proof that Assange is hacking into things?

Also;
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That he created a place that encourages these acts...
Are you saying that wikileaks ENCOURAGES people to hack into the military and steal information? How does it encourage them? Does it pay them? Any leaked documents are submitted anonymously.

While we are here, and since you are not as done as you say you are; what military secrets are we talking about? The ones that will bring about the destruction of American society should they become public.


Blasted Child:

I am too scared to even think up the situation where government transparency brings about the FALL OF MAN. I'm sure it exists.
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  #145  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 08:10 AM       
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  #146  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 08:22 AM       
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  #147  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 11:27 AM       
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Christ, nothing was hacked into or stolen - it was LEAKED. Wikileaks didn't need to steal it since it was GIVEN TO THEM by people wishing to LEAK the information. Those people in turn had it given to them or put in their responsibility.
Doesn't the whole idea of leaking imply that it was stolen information sorta? Like when somebody "leaks" a movie (WHICH PEOPLE GET ARRESTED/SUED FOR BY THE WAY) or videogame its considered theft. You say that like the people leaking the information have a right to leak it. it wasn't given to them or put into their responsibility meaning they could do whatever they want with it.
Also leaking military information is considered a crime labeled as SEDITION and you can get court-martialed and shit from it. So, yea, actually wikileaks is encouraging an environment of sedition.

As for transparency hurting a country I'm sure we can think of something :O
I'm sure there's been some stock market crashes/depressions caused by transparency which incited a panic in people.
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  #148  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 11:50 AM       
Newsflash! Stock market crashes and the depression weren't caused by the flawed mechanism of capitalism! It wasn't because bankers deliberately inflated the value of their shares, it wasn't because people borrowed money they couldn't pay back, encouraged by cynical and short-sighted politicans and already mentioned bankers, or housing bubbles that just had to burst, no no no!
WHAT WAS IT? I WONDER IF IT WAS THAT WRETCHED TRANSPARENCY AGAIN!!!?
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  #149  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 12:04 PM       
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Why would journalism require a degree? Because it does. You have to go to college to get a journalism degree. Try going to CNN without a journalism degree and applying for a journalist position...

Wolf Blitzer
Does not have a degree in Journalism.


A.J. Hammer
Does not have a degree in Journalism


My main man Anderson Cooper
Does not have a degree in Journalism


Larry King
Didnt even go to college.


Ted Turner (founder of CNN)
Was expelled from collage.
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  #150  
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Old Dec 20th, 2010, 12:10 PM       
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