Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 10:45 AM        Why does God care what religion you are?
In most religions, God demands that you believe in a very speciffic version of Him.

I can see God wanting you to follow a set of behavioral rules, as this might have a lot of impact on what happens on earth, but why is He so concerned about how you think of Him as long as you try to be good? Doesn't this lead to a lot of 'slaying the infidel'?

I could imagine a God heavily invested in your moral behavior, even to the point of actively punishing bad behavior and rewarding good, but I just can't think of a single reason God would concern Himself with what you called him, how and where you prayed, how you imgained him, etc.

I'm not throwing down a gauntlet here, I'm looking for thoughts on the matter from informed believers in speciffic faiths.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
Supa Soviet Missil Mastar
Zhukov's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tasmania
Zhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's army
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 11:12 AM       
If I was God, I would care. I would want people to notice me, like me, or even love me.

Then again, I am not God, and neither is anybody else.


Oh, sorry. No faith here.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
sspadowsky sspadowsky is offline
Will chop you good.
sspadowsky's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Thrill World
sspadowsky is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 11:24 AM       
Now Max, now it is you who are just being a stupid leftist liberal pinko commie now. If it is not the one true God now that you are now believing in, you can now prepare to burn in hell with the rest of your Castro-fucking godless atheist friends now. Simple as that.
__________________
"If honesty is the best policy, then, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy. Second is not all that bad."
-George Carlin
Reply With Quote
  #4  
O71394658 O71394658 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A theater near you
O71394658 is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 11:36 AM       
Quote:
I could imagine a God heavily invested in your moral behavior, even to the point of actively punishing bad behavior and rewarding good, but I just can't think of a single reason God would concern Himself with what you called him, how and where you prayed, how you imgained him, etc.
To a point, I agree. But as you all too well know, in most different religions, there is a specific path along which "salvation" is achieved. With the Christian diety, the only way to achieve salvation is to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for the sins of the world.

Though most, if not all religions are founded on the fundamental concepts of love and brotherhood, most religions have a specific path on to which salvation is achieved.
__________________
Do not click here.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Baalzamon Baalzamon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The darkness of your soul
Baalzamon is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 11:41 AM       
This is probably the #1 thing that leads me to believe that there is not a god at all.

and if there was a god who cared what religion you practiced he'd step in so that everyone had a chance to pick the right one, rather than whichever one their parents happen to brainwash them into.

As it stands there is no clear path. Every religion has roughly the same "evidence" to support its arguments, which derive the bulk of their credibility from peer pressure IMO.

The only reason christianity is considered right by so many in our society is because it is the dominant religion at the moment, and usually the first we are exposed to, along with a good old "This is the only right way dont you dare even consider another religion" thrown in with it.

It would be absolutely rediculous for god to not only expect me to pick the right religion, but to also consider that to be more important than living a good life.

God supposedly gave us free will so that we can think for ourselves. he is also supposed to be a forgiving god.

I believe that If my reasoning is flawed and there is a god he will forgive me for that. all I have done is come to the most reasonable conclusion based on what I see. Does god expect me to believe in something that I currently see as wrong?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
O71394658 O71394658 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A theater near you
O71394658 is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 12:12 PM       
Quote:
God supposedly gave us free will so that we can think for ourselves. he is also supposed to be a forgiving god.
Yes and yes. You are exercising your free will, and He will also forgive so, but you kind of have to believe He exists in order for him to grant you forgiveness.

Quote:
Does god expect me to believe in something that I currently see as wrong?
Nope. Hence the practice of free will. You may do as you choose.
__________________
Do not click here.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
Supa Soviet Missil Mastar
Zhukov's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tasmania
Zhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's armyZhukov has joined BAPE's army
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 12:44 PM       
Quote:
You are exercising your free will, and He will also forgive so, but you kind of have to believe He exists in order for him to grant you forgiveness.
I think we are trying to establish why this is. Can't God just let it be?

Quote:
You may do as you choose.
Oh. Thanks.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 01:10 PM       
I think we would do kind of a disservice to an almighty creator to imply that someone/something so powerful would be so petty and vain to get offended if you didn't believe specific things about him/her/it. I mean, what is he, some kind of all-powerful egomaniac needing validation of his own ability? The concept makes no sense to me. The driving force behind the universe and all the galaxies, planets, and lifeforms within cares so much about what we, microscopic inhabitants of a tiny blue marble, are thinking?

Oh, I forgot. Matter of faith, and I'm supposed to respect it, no matter how ludicrous it is, right?

EDIT: Read this: http://www.luminary.us/russell/theologian.html
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 01:36 PM       
Okay, the first bad assumption coming seeminly from all corners that a god should be all-loving, meaning he likes everyone who has good moral fiber. A god could just as easily be petty and capricious, like some of the Greek gods. Maybe morals are only a part of the picture, maybe a god is partial to a certain race of people (Jews) or to a certain culture, an attitude, a level of ability. Yes, Christians say God loves and forgives everyone, but do they really know that God doesn't play favorites? If I were a god, I wouldn't like anyone who badmouthed me or said I didn't exist, though I would be somewhat fair about it. To avoid pleas of ignorance, I'd show myself to the ones that I thought were good enough for me and they could tell the rest; if they listened, I'd be charitable, and if they didn't, fuck 'em, if they were important, I would have picked them out in the first place. I might not be biased enough to only show myself to people in one place like Allah, but who says he can't be?

The second bad assumption, coming from every faith (but I'll focus on the one I'm familiar with) is that people know all about what God thinks and does. Whatever scripture says, isn't God allowed to change his mind, or to put it in a better way, are Christians so presumptuous as to know all the ins and outs of God's nature and what he can and cannot do? What's stopping God from saying "Ok you Christians, that Jesus thing was just a joke, now you're going to Hell because I don't like you."? He's God. He can do what he wants. You can point to the scripture all you want and say "But you promised! We've been taught for centuries that you're good and perfect and you love us all!" but nothing you were taught is necessarily going to stop an all-powerful deity who is beyond your understanding from saying "Tough shit, things are different now."

Therefore, God may or may not care if we believe in him; if he does, he has every right to as the creator of the universe, and it's not our place to say he's wrong.

Oh, and Brandon, it's not about getting offended or needing validation, it's about being superior and being able to do whatever you want. And if he's so immensely powerful, he can worry about the whole universe *and* what the little blue marble people are thinking (and the people on the other little blue marbles that are probably out there) at the same time.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 02:01 PM       
Quote:
Oh, and Brandon, it's not about getting offended or needing validation, it's about being superior and being able to do whatever you want. And if he's so immensely powerful, he can worry about the whole universe *and* what the little blue marble people are thinking (and the people on the other little blue marbles that are probably out there) at the same time.
But why would he?

I can see the Jewish conception of God being concerned with human thought, since he was primarily a tribal deity and a more "fleshed-out," anthropomorphic figure, but an all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe? Logically, wouldn't such a being be above pretty emotions?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Spooky Spooky is offline
Mocker
Spooky's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: deeeetroit basketballllllll
Spooky is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 02:04 PM       
This could probably be considered off topic, but the way this works, isn't EVERYONE going to hell (or whatever, depending on the religion), considering no person can believe in more than one faith?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Vibecrewangel Vibecrewangel is offline
Member
Vibecrewangel's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Vibecrewangel is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 02:27 PM        God
Doesn't it seem likely that God would show itself to people in a form they would understand? God would put on a different outfit and face to try and teach each culture the same things. Because really, at the core all religions teach basically the same ideas.

The whole "my religion is right and yours isn't" issue is quite pointless since if there is a God and if there is only one....then um...well, what are we arguing about again? Oh yeah....that's right who gets to name and describe it. How vain.....

Do you really think that 1000s of years ago the people of a deep jungle tribe would understand or worship the Christian God? Don't you think God would know this and instead show them something that would make sense?

Heck...for that matter.....Jesus, Mohamed and Buddha may all have been the voice of God on Earth designed to reach a specific people. They all tried to pass on similar wisdom.
I find it sad, but I am sure that if there was a second coming of Christ most people would miss it because they weren't really interested in what he would have to say, but more concerned with how he looked.
__________________
Normally, we do not so much look at things as overlook them.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
O71394658 O71394658 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A theater near you
O71394658 is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 02:39 PM       
Quote:
But why would he?

I can see the Jewish conception of God being concerned with human thought, since he was primarily a tribal deity and a more "fleshed-out," anthropomorphic figure, but an all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe? Logically, wouldn't such a being be above pretty emotions?
God is not logical. "Petty" emotions are all we humans are able to relate to. We assign God feelings and thoughts because we have no other way of expresssing him. Sounds like you're mad at God because he doesn't fit the cookie-cutter mold you want Him to...
__________________
Do not click here.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 02:49 PM       
Quote:
God is not logical. "Petty" emotions are all we humans are able to relate to. We assign God feelings and thoughts because we have no other way of expresssing him. Sounds like you're mad at God because he doesn't fit the cookie-cutter mold you want Him to...
What the hell are you talking about? I'm going by the often contradictory Christian conception of God. That conception is: all powerful creator above everything human who nevertheless feels very human anger whenever he is faced with nonbelievers.

I suppose it's not worth arguing on rational grounds. Theists can always claim victory on a technicality with "God is not logical."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 02:50 PM       
If God really cared about what we think, wouldn't he show up at the Sands in Vegas doing weekly appearances so that he can be publicly adored? There'll be question and answer sessions at the end using a roving, microphoned assistant in the audience. All audience members that ask questions he don't like will be struck with a hail of sulphur and brimstone ... or lightning ... your preference.

Why would God impose such moral laws against vanity, ect when he doesn't adhere to them Himself ... and he's supposed to be perfect. Contradiction in the definition of God?
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 02:53 PM       
Quote:
Why would God impose such moral laws against vanity, ect when he doesn't adhere to them Himself ... and he's supposed to be perfect. Contradiction in the definition of God?
Didn't you hear, Kelly? GOD IS NOT LOGICAL! STOP TRYING TO MAKE HIM FIT YOUR COOKIE-CUTTER, HEATHEN!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 02:56 PM       
We made him. We can change him anytime we want!
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Vibecrewangel Vibecrewangel is offline
Member
Vibecrewangel's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Vibecrewangel is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 03:05 PM        YAY
kelly

Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
__________________
Normally, we do not so much look at things as overlook them.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 03:07 PM       
Cromagnan Chicken!
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 03:09 PM       
I stand by what I said. If a god exists, he is able to do what he wants, and that includes ignoring humans who don't think he makes sense.

Bad assumption number three: Assuming that any god = God as described by Christians. You hear the word, you turn it into that name and ascribe to it all of the qualities that Christians say he has. Assuming God exists, what Christians say may be an accurate picture of what he really is, but they may just as easily be very wrong.

Bad assumption number four: Tying in with the Christian God, this crap about perfection. It's terrible rhetoric to say in the same breath that God is perfect and that people can't grasp perfection and then try to define the word. Shouldn't God be in charge of definitions? Maybe perfect for him means selfish and vindictive, not generous and forgiving.

Bad assumption number five: anthropomorphizing a god, particularly giving him traits of specific humans. If I were a god, once again, and I valued the minds of some people, that would not drive me to seek public worship; if people were worshiping me, I could just as easily watch them from afar, and that would give me equal satisfaction. Once again, a god may think just like a human, but he may not, and if he does think like a human, it is very important to account for the enormous variation in human personalities.

Bad assumption number six: God cannot be a hypocrite. Why not? You ask why would God impose such moral laws against vanity, etc.? How about because he has the right to make rules for humans, even if he himself is above the law. "Do as I say, not as I do." Or think of a scientific experiment; "what happens when I tell them this?"
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 03:14 PM        Re: YAY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vibecrewangel
Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
The egg came first. All chickens come from eggs, but not all eggs come from chickens. Simple, no?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 03:25 PM       
Clearly this discussion isn't going anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 03:50 PM       
edit
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 03:54 PM       
You must have a huge masochistic streak. If I knew there was a God and so did everyone else, I'd thinking anyone who didn't bow and pray was a complete idiot. Think about it rationally for a second, is it really better to burn for eternity just because you want to be contrary?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Sep 19th, 2003, 04:06 PM       
edit
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 AM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.