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Old Jul 11th, 2006, 05:57 PM        Train bombs kill 147 in India
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/11/news/india.php

Train bombs in Mumbai kill 147
By Amelia Gentleman International Herald Tribune

Published: July 11, 2006


NEW DELHI India's government blamed terrorist groups for a highly organized rush-hour attack on the nation's financial capital Tuesday evening, after seven blasts ripped through crowded trains in Mumbai, killing as many as 147 people and wounding more than 400.

The prime minister, Manmohan Singh, described the attacks as "shocking and cowardly attempts to spread a feeling of fear" and called on citizens to remain calm.

The police in major cities across the country were nevertheless placed on high alert, and security at airports was increased.

Speaking before joining an emergency meeting convened by Singh, the home minister, Shivraj Patil, said that the authorities had "some" information that an attack was coming, "but the place and time was not known."

All the blasts were understood to have been detonated within the space of about a half-hour on moving trains that were taking commuters from the city center to the suburbs shortly after 6 p.m., a time when the network is normally packed to capacity. An eighth bomb was found and defused by the police, according to a television report.

The police said the attack had been carefully planned and coordinated.

No organization came forward to claim responsibility in the hours following the blasts, and the Indian government was careful to avoid speculation over who might have been behind the attacks.

The Indian media, however, were quick to highlight the possible involvement of Kashmiri militant groups fighting for the separation of their Muslim-majority state from India. The Mumbai attacks came hours after a number of coordinated grenade attacks by Islamist extremists killed eight people in Srinagar, the capital of Indian-controlled Kashmir.

Analysts said that the orchestration of several blasts in quick succession, like those that tore through the Mumbai rail network, was a tactic employed by Kashmiri groups, adding that such precise coordination suggested the involvement of a well-established militant organization.

One of the most notorious militant groups active in Kashmir, Lashkar-e- Toiba, was implicated in the multiple bombings last October in crowded Delhi markets, in which 63 people were killed and more than 200 were wounded.

Scenes of confusion in Mumbai late Tuesday were broadcast on Indian television.

On one train, screaming commuters tried to escape from mangled rail cars, while distressed travelers worked to lift badly wounded fellow passengers off the tracks to safety.

The force of the explosion tore off the train's windows and doors, and body parts could be seen among the mechanical wreckage on the railway sidings. Extensive damage was visible inside other carriages targeted by the attackers.

"I can't hear anything," said Shailesh Mhate, a man in his 20s, sitting in the Veena Desai Hospital surrounded by bloody cotton swabs, told The Associated Press.

"People around me didn't survive. I don't know how I did."

Reports indicated that the scale and the geographical range of the multiple attacks overwhelmed the city's emergency services, and many wounded passengers were forced to make their way to the hospital on foot.

Scenes at the city's hospitals were chaotic, with medical staff admitting to reporters that they were ill-equipped to deal with the number of wounded passengers requiring amputations and treatment for serious burns.

Heavy traffic and a sudden monsoon downpour was making the rescue operation difficult, officials said, and ambulance workers and police officers were unable to reach some of the blasts sites until long after the attacks.

Phone networks were jammed in the city of 16 million, adding to the chaos in the aftermath of the explosions.

The chief minister of Maharashtra, of which Mumbai is the capital, Vilasrao Deshmukh, told the Press Club of India that by late Tuesday the death toll stood at 147 with an additional 439 wounded.

Officials indicated that the final casualty toll could be higher. At peak times, each train car on the network is designed to hold between 400 and 600 people.

The first explosion hit a train at a railway station in the northwestern suburb of Khar. Six more blasts followed along the line of the western railway at the Mahim, Bandra, Matunga, Borivili, Mira Road and Jogeshwari stations.

On some trains, the alarm was so intense that passengers were reported to have thrown themselves from moving cars after hearing the blasts. Most of the bombs were understood to have gone off in first-class cars.

Despite a recent improvement in relations between Pakistan and India, officials in Delhi have continued to berate Pakistan for failing to clamp down on militant activity in its territory.

President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan came out swiftly Tuesday to condemn the attacks, describing the event as a "despicable act of terrorism."

Officials in Mumbai were making a pointed attempt to get the city back on its feet swiftly late Tuesday, and the police said that they were working to reopen the rail network, used by six million people daily.

A spokesman for the Bombay Stock Exchange said it was expected to be operating as usual Wednesday.

Mumbai, formerly named Bombay, has been targeted by serial bomb attacks on several occasions in its recent history.

In 2003, 13 blasts in quick succession in India's financial center killed more than 250 people; the attacks were blamed on mafia organizations.

NEW DELHI India's government blamed terrorist groups for a highly organized rush-hour attack on the nation's financial capital Tuesday evening, after seven blasts ripped through crowded trains in Mumbai, killing as many as 147 people and wounding more than 400.

The prime minister, Manmohan Singh, described the attacks as "shocking and cowardly attempts to spread a feeling of fear" and called on citizens to remain calm.

The police in major cities across the country were nevertheless placed on high alert, and security at airports was increased.

Speaking before joining an emergency meeting convened by Singh, the home minister, Shivraj Patil, said that the authorities had "some" information that an attack was coming, "but the place and time was not known."

All the blasts were understood to have been detonated within the space of about a half-hour on moving trains that were taking commuters from the city center to the suburbs shortly after 6 p.m., a time when the network is normally packed to capacity. An eighth bomb was found and defused by the police, according to a television report.

The police said the attack had been carefully planned and coordinated.

No organization came forward to claim responsibility in the hours following the blasts, and the Indian government was careful to avoid speculation over who might have been behind the attacks.

The Indian media, however, were quick to highlight the possible involvement of Kashmiri militant groups fighting for the separation of their Muslim-majority state from India. The Mumbai attacks came hours after a number of coordinated grenade attacks by Islamist extremists killed eight people in Srinagar, the capital of Indian-controlled Kashmir.

Analysts said that the orchestration of several blasts in quick succession, like those that tore through the Mumbai rail network, was a tactic employed by Kashmiri groups, adding that such precise coordination suggested the involvement of a well-established militant organization.

One of the most notorious militant groups active in Kashmir, Lashkar-e- Toiba, was implicated in the multiple bombings last October in crowded Delhi markets, in which 63 people were killed and more than 200 were wounded.

Scenes of confusion in Mumbai late Tuesday were broadcast on Indian television.

On one train, screaming commuters tried to escape from mangled rail cars, while distressed travelers worked to lift badly wounded fellow passengers off the tracks to safety.

The force of the explosion tore off the train's windows and doors, and body parts could be seen among the mechanical wreckage on the railway sidings. Extensive damage was visible inside other carriages targeted by the attackers.

"I can't hear anything," said Shailesh Mhate, a man in his 20s, sitting in the Veena Desai Hospital surrounded by bloody cotton swabs, told The Associated Press.

"People around me didn't survive. I don't know how I did."

Reports indicated that the scale and the geographical range of the multiple attacks overwhelmed the city's emergency services, and many wounded passengers were forced to make their way to the hospital on foot.

Scenes at the city's hospitals were chaotic, with medical staff admitting to reporters that they were ill-equipped to deal with the number of wounded passengers requiring amputations and treatment for serious burns.

Heavy traffic and a sudden monsoon downpour was making the rescue operation difficult, officials said, and ambulance workers and police officers were unable to reach some of the blasts sites until long after the attacks.

Phone networks were jammed in the city of 16 million, adding to the chaos in the aftermath of the explosions.

The chief minister of Maharashtra, of which Mumbai is the capital, Vilasrao Deshmukh, told the Press Club of India that by late Tuesday the death toll stood at 147 with an additional 439 wounded.

Officials indicated that the final casualty toll could be higher. At peak times, each train car on the network is designed to hold between 400 and 600 people.

The first explosion hit a train at a railway station in the northwestern suburb of Khar. Six more blasts followed along the line of the western railway at the Mahim, Bandra, Matunga, Borivili, Mira Road and Jogeshwari stations.

On some trains, the alarm was so intense that passengers were reported to have thrown themselves from moving cars after hearing the blasts. Most of the bombs were understood to have gone off in first-class cars.

Despite a recent improvement in relations between Pakistan and India, officials in Delhi have continued to berate Pakistan for failing to clamp down on militant activity in its territory.

President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan came out swiftly Tuesday to condemn the attacks, describing the event as a "despicable act of terrorism."

Officials in Mumbai were making a pointed attempt to get the city back on its feet swiftly late Tuesday, and the police said that they were working to reopen the rail network, used by six million people daily.

A spokesman for the Bombay Stock Exchange said it was expected to be operating as usual Wednesday.

Mumbai, formerly named Bombay, has been targeted by serial bomb attacks on several occasions in its recent history.

In 2003, 13 blasts in quick succession in India's financial center killed more than 250 people; the attacks were blamed on mafia organizations.
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Old Jul 11th, 2006, 11:36 PM       
fucking christ. real smart way to motivate a government to acknowledge your seperatist movement.

sure, you can have your own state. just so you know though, we plan to bomb the ever living fuck out it in retaliation for what you just did. have a nice day.

absolute insanity.
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 12:23 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggytrix
fucking christ. real smart way to motivate a government to acknowledge your seperatist movement.

sure, you can have your own state. just so you know though, we plan to bomb the ever living fuck out it in retaliation for what you just did. have a nice day.

absolute insanity.
But why should the separatists stop?

The two suspected organizations both have their roots in Pakistan. This is about more than merely having their own state, it's also about having a muslim state.

What evidence do we have around the world today that proves conducting this kind of terrorism isn't effective? Won't this draw attention to their cause, and force the world to look at India as an occupying regime?
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 01:19 PM       
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13815413/

Possible al-Qaida link to India train attacks
Dawood Ibrahim, Indian Muslim with links to bin Laden, tops list of suspects

By Robert Windrem
Investigative producer
NBC News

Updated: 3:34 p.m. ET July 11, 2006
NEW YORK — Indian intelligence believes the attacks on Mumbai’s commuter train network on Tuesday, killing scores during the evening rush hour, might be the work of Dawood Ibrahim, an Indian Muslim with ties to al-Qaida.

Ibrahim is believed to have been responsible for the 1993 attacks that killed 260 in Mumbai, India’s commercial hub formerly known as Bombay.

Two years ago, the U.S. Treasury Department designated Ibrahim as a terrorist as part of its international sanctions program — effectively forbidding U.S. financial entities from working with him and permitting seizure of any assets believed to be in his control.

U.S. officials believe he moves between Dubai and Pakistan.

Ibrahim also has financed operations of Lashkar e Taiba, the Kashmir separatist group, according to one U.S. official.

"They have targeted trains before and are the leading suspect," said the counter-terrorism official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They have gone after trains and train platforms in 2002 and 2003. It is more likely than not the work of Lashkar. In fact you can say it is very likely their work."

Fact sheet
Meantime, here is the U.S. Treasury fact sheet on Ibrahim:

"Dawood Ibrahim ("IBRAHIM"), the son of a police constable, has reigned as one of the pre-eminent criminals in the Indian underworld for most of the past two decades.


"IBRAHIM'S syndicate is involved in large-scale shipments of narcotics in the U.K. and Western Europe.

"The syndicate's smuggling routes from South Asia, the Middle East and Africa are shared with Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network.

"Successful routes established over recent years by IBRAHIM'S syndicate have been subsequently utilized by bin Laden. A financial arrangement was reportedly brokered to facilitate the latter's usage of these routes.

"In the late 1990's, IBRAHIM traveled in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban.

"IBRAHIM'S syndicate has consistently aimed to destabilize the Indian government through inciting riots, acts of terrorism, and civil disobedience. He is currently wanted by India for the March 12, 1993 Bombay Exchange bombings, which killed hundreds of Indians and injured over a thousand more.

"Information, from as recent as Fall 2002, indicates that IBRAHIM has financially supported Islamic militant groups working against India, such as Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT).


"For example, this information indicates that IBRAHIM has been helping finance increasing attacks in Gujarat by LeT. Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (Army of the Righteous) is the armed wing of Markaz-ud-Dawa-wal-Irsha (MDI) - a Sunni anti-U.S. missionary organization formed in 1989.

"The United States added LeT to the list of designated terrorists in October 2001. The group was banned by the Pakistani government, and its assets frozen, in January 2002."

Robert Windrem is an NBC News Investigative Producer.
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 02:27 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
The two suspected organizations both have their roots in Pakistan. This is about more than merely having their own state, it's also about having a muslim state.
Oh, they're muslims? This must be part of the vast International Islamic Conspiracy! Ya know, it's so nice of the Islamists to step up and fill the bogeyman void the Communists left behind after the cold War era.


Quote:
What evidence do we have around the world today that proves conducting this kind of terrorism isn't effective? Won't this draw attention to their cause, and force the world to look at India as an occupying regime?
Are those meant to be rhetorical questions?

It draws attention to the fact that whoever is responsible for this is a indiscriminate mass-murderer. That's not generally something that draws sympathy for a cause.
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 02:29 PM       
Unless we sort of edit the root cause in our head and liken it to a bogeyman.
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 02:49 PM       
Yeah, isolated incident.

Just a police matter folks, move it along!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy
Quote:
What evidence do we have around the world today that proves conducting this kind of terrorism isn't effective? Won't this draw attention to their cause, and force the world to look at India as an occupying regime?
Are those meant to be rhetorical questions?
I'm asking you to justify why a young, Islamic separatist should think blowing up innocent people on a train won't work for them.

Palestinians and others behave in this way, and it has brought many around the world to their side. It has at least drawn attention to their concerns. If we won't absolutely and unequivocally reject and fight it everywhere, why should they stop doing it there???
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 05:26 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
If we won't absolutely and unequivocally reject and fight it everywhere, why should they stop doing it there???
I dunno bout you, but I can only be in one place at one time.
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 05:44 PM       
Not true. You could have one foot in Canada and one foot in the United States at the same time.
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 06:04 PM       
OK, so what exactly would "absolutely and unequivocally reject and fight it everywhere" look like to you?

Do we invade Pakistan if that is, as it would appear, the nation harboring this train bomber 'mastermind'?

Is it essential to focus on the Islamic aspect of this terrorism? How is that productive? Are we rejecting Islamic terrorism or ALL terrorism?

And one last question: how much do you think it would have cost to put a bullet in Dawood Ibrahim's head 2 years ago when he was identified and how might that action have affected the situation today?
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 06:42 PM       
If that post is to me. I was joking with my previous comment.
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Old Jul 12th, 2006, 10:38 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggytrix
OK, so what exactly would "absolutely and unequivocally reject and fight it everywhere" look like to you?
First you acknowledge that it's more than a collection of random, police incidents.

Then you accept the fact that it's essential to focus on the Islamic aspect of terrorism, and yes, this terrorism (something you have difficulty with).

Then you accept the fact that it's productive to do the above, b/c it allows you to confront (either militarily, economically, or diplomatically) the regimes and organizations that allow and often promote a radical form of Islam to breed and operate within their own borders. Muslims can be as angry, sexist, and regressive as they like. More power to them. But when they coordinate efforts to harm others who are non-believers, or attempt to topple regimes in order to expand Islamic law, then we have a problem. We need to confront this.


Quote:
Do we invade Pakistan if that is, as it would appear, the nation harboring this train bomber 'mastermind'?
We don't need to invade Pakistan, and I'm sorry that you think every form of suggested action = a bomb. But trying to stomp out a terrorist action here, and then a terrorist action there, won't fix the problem.



Quote:
And one last question: how much do you think it would have cost to put a bullet in Dawood Ibrahim's head 2 years ago when he was identified and how might that action have affected the situation today?
I think another petty thug with ties to Al Qaeda would be there to take his place. He's one ant, he isn't the Queen.
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