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  #26  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 04:45 PM       
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The nation of Israel is in the same place as the kingdom of Israel was. So if you want to get into who took whos land from who... They just took back what was theirs since before the common era.
well yea and they took it from the canaanites and also the jews stole the muslims inheritance or some shit anyway when that one esau dude wore sheep skin.
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  #27  
Tadao Tadao is offline
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Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 04:55 PM       
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html
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  #28  
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Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 05:32 PM       
Im just saying that if you want to get into who was where first they have just as much claim to to area as anyone.
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  #29  
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Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 05:38 PM       
Or a right to take it.
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  #30  
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Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 06:00 PM       
Or that.
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  #31  
Tadao Tadao is offline
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Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 06:53 PM       
It seems to me that Bastard Child created this thread so that he can be mad at Americans for being Americans. He has small penis complex.
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  #32  
Dr. Boogie Dr. Boogie is offline
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Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 10:40 PM       
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ah but you have to agree it's pretty incompetent to board a ship like that. Not only are you a military commando versus a motley crew of activists with sticks and chairs; you manage to get your weapons stolen from you, used against you, and then you end up killing like a dozen of them. That's some pretty bad crowd control if you ask me, but then again I'm no military expert.
That's true. The Geneva Convention states that when a civilian wrestles a gun away from a soldier, that civilian is allowed to take no less than 5 free penalty shots.
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  #33  
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Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 11:22 PM       
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  #34  
Blasted Child Blasted Child is offline
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 04:17 AM       
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Im just saying that if you want to get into who was where first they have just as much claim to to area as anyone.
I don't think I ever expressed an interest to get into that. But since you did, let's just say it's a bit more complicated than Israelis just claiming what is rightfully theirs.
Sweden wouldn't invade Finland just because we once owned that land, just as it would be wrong by native americans to start bombing american cities because the land was originally theirs. And the case Israel/Palestine isn't even that clear cut.

Also, most of you seem to only focus on how the acitivists reacted when boarded. Why are you not condemning the boarding itself - since when is it alright to attack a non-military ship on international waters and detain its passengers? Apart from the handguns that were allegedly stolen from the Israeli commandos, the ships carried food and medicine.

You seem to regard the Israeli soldiers as some sort of police force that was just doing their job, like when riot police cracks down on a bunch of football hooligans somewhere, and the civilians had better comply or suit themselves.
This isn't like that - this is a foreign military force attacking civilians, outside of their territory - civilians not even on their way to their territory but to a third-part land.

Let's not forget that the global community, as well as UN, consider the blockade illegal and a war crime. If you want to provide Gaza with supplies, and refuse to let Israel dictate the premises, how would you go about?

When I hear Israel complain about how unfairly the rest of the world is treating them, it reminds of when certain colleagues find it unfair when their entire workplace hates them. If everyone thinks you suck, there's probably some truth in it, and you should probably start changing a bit.
If you think the whole world hates you and don't realise you're partly to blame, you're either subject to some really heavy propaganda, or a sociopath.
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  #35  
Pentegarn Pentegarn is offline
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 06:10 AM       
Keep in mind the same kind of people who think it is OK to hate Israel include the likes of the following

Hitler
The people who perpetrated 9/11
Slavers

So before you go and say there's something to how the world views Israel, you might want to look at the company in which you find yourself
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  #36  
Blasted Child Blasted Child is offline
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 06:40 AM       
oh but ffs
Israel can't be criticized because hitler hated jews?
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  #38  
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 07:06 AM       
Here's the whole problem with what you are doing versus "criticizing Israel"

You insinuate Israel went into this intending to slaughter activists. If you didn't feel that way why condemn the boarding at all? Activists get detained and arrested every day. What makes these ones so special?

What makes them special is they were killed because they went beyond the level of civil disobedience.

I read a few articles about this. In every one, the Israeli commandos were told there would be no resistance and this would be a simple 'arrest of protesters'. They get on board and these 'men of peace' attacked the Israeli troops, putting lie to everything they claim to be about. The Israeli troops were not mentally prepared for that sort of reaction. In other words, their intent when they boarded was no violence in the first place.

And that is why I refuse to condemn the boarding. Those troops defended themselves while following their orders, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I will not feel differently about this.
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  #39  
Blasted Child Blasted Child is offline
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 07:51 AM       
no no no, just stop! You're wrong on so many accounts....just writing another post with more groups/people that hate jews is just so ultra-wrong...

Bringing up all that crap is just a cheap shot to question my integrity...am I in the "company" of hitler, kkk, skinheads because I want to condemn a particular event? Don't you see how damaging this is to the entire discourse?

What are we going to do, compare just how appalled we both are by the holocaust? Talk about how many times we've read Anne Frank's diary? How much we've both done to counter neo-nazism and those movements, and if we do, do you think you'll win?

And then you say I have insinuated that israelis went in there with the intention to "slaughter" innocent...what I've done is to condemn strongly how they boarded a non-military vessel on international waters...and I've ALSO deplored the fact that the activists used violence.

Can't you at least pretend to reply to the points I've brought up, instead of filling this thread with cheap ad-hominems?
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  #40  
Kitsa Kitsa is offline
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 10:08 AM       
I think that after the Shoah, Israel snapped and became a little...well, let's call it proactive. And, knowing of this proactive reputation, things can get spun to the point where no one is ever going to know what the real story is. If Israel is in the right, it's believable because of x historical event, and if they're in the wrong, it's believable because of x historical event.

I'm sorry people are dead.

In what I'm sure will appear to be a non-sequitur, have you ever watched "From the Aleph-Bet"? Because I often come away from that being mad at the world. A rip-roaring good time it is. See for yourself.

http://shalomtv.org/PGMG_AlephBet.htm

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  #41  
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 01:21 PM       
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Originally Posted by Blasted Child View Post
And then you say I have insinuated that israelis went in there with the intention to "slaughter" innocent...what I've done is to condemn strongly how they boarded a non-military vessel on international waters...and I've ALSO deplored the fact that the activists used violence.

Can't you at least pretend to reply to the points I've brought up, instead of filling this thread with cheap ad-hominems?
But you said that the soldiers themselves were incompetent. I don't see what that has to do with the orders being given for them to board the vessels and I think many people here are reacting to your focus on the soldiers themselves, hence the reason we defended them and made fun of you for thinking that somehow they could magically avoid being mobbed by people who they thought would comply with their instructions. Instead you should be focusing on the policy makers and others who actually ordered this to occur as opposed to mocking the soldiers. I, however, have yet to see you address that aspect.

Your request for no ad hominems being employed is also hypocritical as your early posts in this thread demonstrate.
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  #42  
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 02:45 PM       
The Leader, please, count the posts where I've made ad-hominem attacks and compare them them with the once I've received...we're not even playing in the same ballpark here.

I don't mind at all jokes about small penis size or whatever, because this is i-mockery after all, but you can't both pretend to run a pertinent debate, then jump to asserting that I'm anti-semitic, then suddenly jump to being sensitive about me "mocking" israeli soldiers...
yes, I stand by the opinion that their crowd dispersal skills sucked pretty hard - but I can agree with your sentiment that the decision makers should be more in focus and not the soldiers themselves.

I also sort of regret that I started a thread where it seems like I'm stabbing at americans, so I promise that next time I start a debate it will not include americans or their shortcomings in any conceivable way.
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  #43  
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 03:03 PM       
So, you hate americans, jews and blacks. You sure Sweden and Switzerland aren't the same?
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  #44  
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 05:53 PM       
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The Leader, please, count the posts where I've made ad-hominem attacks and compare them them with the once I've received...we're not even playing in the same ballpark here.

I don't mind at all jokes about small penis size or whatever, because this is i-mockery after all, but you can't both pretend to run a pertinent debate, then jump to asserting that I'm anti-semitic, then suddenly jump to being sensitive about me "mocking" israeli soldiers...
yes, I stand by the opinion that their crowd dispersal skills sucked pretty hard - but I can agree with your sentiment that the decision makers should be more in focus and not the soldiers themselves.

I also sort of regret that I started a thread where it seems like I'm stabbing at americans, so I promise that next time I start a debate it will not include americans or their shortcomings in any conceivable way.
You have no idea what's going on in this thread.
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  #46  
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Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 09:33 PM       
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  #48  
Tadao Tadao is offline
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Old Jun 4th, 2010, 01:10 AM       
I think you are more of a cement mixer. :o
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  #50  
Blasted Child Blasted Child is offline
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Old Jun 4th, 2010, 03:08 AM       
Boring.

You're like this little inbred island village, where everyone is allergic to outsiders or other opinions. The only difference is that since this place is called i-mockery you believe that everything you say somehow magically becomes brilliant mockery.
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