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Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
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Old Jul 29th, 2003, 03:52 PM        Government Funded Religious Discrimination at Head Start
http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty...?ID=12943&c=37

The Head Start program may become a victim of federally funded religious discrimination. Instead of supporting civil rights protections, legislation pending before the Congress would allow Head Start programs to discriminate on the basis of religion.

The Head Start program provides educational opportunities to many of the nation's youth -- last year more than 900,000 children enrolled in the program (95 percent were younger than five years old). It also allows parents to participate in their childrens' education -- 1,450,000 parents volunteer in positions such as teacher aides and chaperones. The Head Start program also provides excellent job training and opportunities for poverty-stricken families. Last year 29 percent of Head Start program staff members were parents of current or former Head Start children.

Provisions in the Head Start re-authorization bill (H.R. 2210) would remove many of the civil rights protections currently found in the Head Start program. Under this new legislation, religious organizations involved in Head Start would be allowed to fire Head Start teachers who do not belong to the same religion. It would also restrict parents from volunteering with their children's education.


This legislation harms teachers and people seeking teaching posts.
Thousands of Head Start teachers could lose their jobs if they fail their employer's religious tests.
Countless parents would furthermore be blocked from climbing the ladder out of poverty that has already allowed thousands of parents to go from being a parent volunteer to being a trained and paid Head Start teacher -- simply because they do not share the federally funded employer's religious beliefs.

This legislation harms parent volunteers.
The proposed bill is so broadly written that it would automatically disqualify parents from becoming classroom volunteers because they subscribe to a different faith than the group running the program. Religious discrimination against parent volunteers could take the form of either blocking parent volunteers from all volunteer opportunities in their children's classroom, or giving inferior volunteer assignments to parents who do not share the employer's religious beliefs.

This Act would allow violations of the Constitution.
The Constitution prohibits the government from using federal dollars to fund religious discrimination in hiring for government-funded jobs. The Head Start re-authorization bill would therefore authorize unconstitutional religious discrimination.

The link at the top will allow you to contact your representatives.
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The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
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Old Jul 29th, 2003, 09:43 PM       
This is the kind of crap that makes me glad I'm not a republican.
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Old Jul 29th, 2003, 10:43 PM       
"I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
-President George Bush Sr.
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Jul 29th, 2003, 11:29 PM       
Talk about propaganda. It hardly affects the majority staff members involved in the program, let alone all of them I sometimes wonder at the intellegence of people. . .

The above mentioned House bill reflects only upon religious organizations involved in the Head Start pre-school program to be exempt from federal non-discrimination hiring policies. I.E. they cannot disqualify someone based upon religious orientation, however, they can hire someone else because of it -As quite a number of local Head Start programs currently operate in "houses of worship" or are operated by local church groups, this provision does make some sense. It DOES not reflect Head Start programs which are not controlled by religiously oriented organizations. I doubt neither the parents, directors, children or staff of such places have as great a problem with this legislation as the ACLU, and for that reason, debates such as this should be looked upon with sharp cynicism.

The bill would also allow up to eight states to manage Head Start so they could coordinate the program, and merge its money, with other childhood education efforts to attain greater results for the children involved. Care providers now get the money directly, and greater coordination could drive up academic achievement. Claims that it will weaken educational standards are silly at best as too many Head Start children in the past have entered into schools at a status considered below average in early writing, math, letter recognition and vocabulary. To further ensure excellence, the bill guarantees that those currently funded will see their monies disappear if they fail to meet the bill's standards for quality.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Jul 30th, 2003, 09:21 AM       
If the intent was to 'further insure excellence' head start would get fully funded, as it was originally envisioned. Something that has never been the case since it's inception.

As far as Propaganda goes, that's a word that's being flung around on these bits quite a bit lately, and it's usually coupled with disdain for the other person view point and credulity and overweening pride in ones own view point and clarity.

The word has acquired conotations (not necessarily found in it's deffinition) of carefully crafted lies in service of an insidious agenda.
If that's what you meant, Shach, I think that's a little on the paranoid side of the slope and shows a faith in the lefts organizational abilities I only wish it had. If you mean something less than that, I think Propoganda is such an abused word it's lost it's utilty.
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Jul 30th, 2003, 04:45 PM       
That is exactly what I mean Burbank. The ratio and figures quotaed above are blatantly false as less than a third of all Head Start involved organizations would be affected by this Bill one way or the other.

As for being paranoid all I will say is that the ACLU is not a force to be discounted. Talent and resources are readily at their disposal, and they are managed by some of the sharper minds in the political community.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 09:35 AM       
If true, thank God. I'd hate to think there was no one on the left with their shit together. Which, sadly, is exactly what I do think.
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 12:47 PM       
Thank god the ACLU is not a force to be discounted. Ror, I'm not terribly informed about this issue, but I challenge you to support your claim that less than a third of HS programs would be affected. EDIT: Never mind- inadvertently skipped one of your earlier posts, but I will address it further when I have more time.

Furthermore, it cannot be denied that Dubya and Aschcroft in particular are religious zealots, and Bush has made many efforts to support "faith-based initiatives" (a nice euphemism for gov't-sponsored religion) since taking office.

We've got to keep our eyes on proposed legislation, especially under the current administration, and we must not only look at how laws will be used, but also how they can, and most definitely will be abused.
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 05:15 PM       
I'm an Irish protestant Sspad, as I'm sure you know. That colours what I am willing to accept in regards to religious involvement.

Hehe and for the record. I don't have my shit together at all Burbank. Every day I wake up I can't help but feel like I've lost a little bit more of my mind.
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KILLADEUCE KILLADEUCE is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 05:24 PM       
Uh... pertaining to these "faith-based initiatives"... didnt they do shit like this in a place called "Nazi Germany" circa 1938-46? ( alittle harshly put i admit) Nowadays we have a term for it called "The Holocaust"

I have a hard time swallowing this one... Relegion should not be a motivating force in politics, lest we revert to situations not touched on since the middle ages (PAying for INdulgences comes to mind)

I would add i am not terribly informed of this situation whatsoever so forgive my ignorance, but it just seems quite amazing to me that Shit like this can even get off the floor... MAn i am SOoooo Naive to the ways of the world....

Quote:
We've got to keep our eyes on proposed legislation, especially under the current administration, and we must not only look at how laws will be used, but also how they can, and most definitely will be abused.

:Applause. Very well put sspadowsky
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 05:35 PM       
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I'm an Irish protestant
TRAITOR! PIG! HEATHEN!

Quote:
Uh... pertaining to these "faith-based initiatives"... didnt they do shit like this in a place called "Nazi Germany" circa 1938-46? ( alittle harshly put i admit) Nowadays we have a term for it called "The Holocaust"
No. that was nothing like a Faith Based Initiative. To make that comparison is an insult to the victims of the Holocaust.

Quote:
I have a hard time swallowing this one... Relegion should not be a motivating force in politics, lest we revert to situations not touched on since the middle ages (PAying for INdulgences comes to mind)
did you know the the public school system as we know was invented by a priest in the middle ages?

Where do people keep getting this retarded idea that Bush is some sort of zealot? Because he occasionally mentions that he believes in God in a couple speeches?

Bill Clinton went to church, too. Of course, he spontaneeously combusted a few times, but still......
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 07:24 PM       
"TRAITOR! PIG! HEATHEN!"

alrightmotherfuckersthatsthelaststraw

JANEY! STRIKE UP THE BARBEQUE PIT! TIME FOR ANOTHER SPANISH INQUISITION!!
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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 07:36 PM       
I was always more of an iron maiden fan myself. What other implement of torture gets its own heavy metal band?
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 07:55 PM       
Yeah but Wat Tyler just burned Lutherans and Catholics at the stake. For historical accuracy I have to imitate, though with some improvision.
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KILLADEUCE KILLADEUCE is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 08:17 PM       
Quote:
Where do people keep getting this retarded idea that Bush is some sort of zealot? Because he occasionally mentions that he believes in God in a couple speeches?
Don't get me wrong, i wasnt saying this in offense to Bush in particular, and i agree alot of people have slapped the man into the role of a "zealot"

I merely feel that there should be an austere and exacting seperation of school and state. I mean that not as an attack on organized religion either. I just personally feel that cildren should be able to learn in a multi-faceted and multicultural environment, where someones beliefs arent forced upon them, or where a child may be raised w/o pre-disposed beliefs against other religions/races/creeds- let them make there own descision through there own expirience...

I honestly feel that i am going to wait and let my kids decide on the religion they wish to follow when they are old enough. (- i'm sure i'll catch flack for this) To me it breaks down to what makes them happy and complete, not what someone else feels is in there best interest (based off of beliefs of those that had no choice but to digest.)

Quote:
TIME FOR ANOTHER SPANISH INQUISITION!!
As long as you keep me away from a fucking Judas Cradle... Them shits look like ti would hurt...
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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 09:36 PM       
Anybody read the feature on methods of torture Maxim did a few months back? That Judas Cradle thing made me walk funny for a week.

White people are fucked the hell up.
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KILLADEUCE KILLADEUCE is offline
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Old Jul 31st, 2003, 09:49 PM       
Fuck yeah they are man
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