What?

[kahljorn]

So does that mean that all serpents in the entire world are Satan, then? Because it clearly says that god curses all serpents and makes them crawl on their bellies and slither and strike men's heel. That's how the serpent was created.
Also it's fucking obvious that the snake didn't deceive eve. He told her the truth. She chose of her on volition. If I told you the truth like, "IF YOU JUMP OFF THIS BRIDGE YOU WILL SURELY DIE" and you did it anyway you couldn't say I deceived you okay and if you did you'd be deceiving yourself.

Believing and being in the bible aren't the same thing.

I hate it when people embelish as to what the bible is saying to support their bullshit religous beliefs.

According to what I understand the jews don't even believe in "the fall" or "Original sin"

[Grislygus]

Like I said, I have no idea. According to my friends, Eve wasn't decieved in the 'original' version. I can see why that would rankle certain medieval religious figures.

Though I'm not sure how she "wasn't decieved" if the devil appeared in angelic form and tempted her. Still, what they've said is consistently similar, which makes me really, really curious. If we have any religious history buffs around, set me straight here.

[kahljorn]

I think Sethomas would say that it's a protestant tradition. It might not even be orthodox catholic

[Eddie]

to clear up the thing about deception the serpent ( the devil) lied to Eve and said, if she eats of the fruit of good and evil, you shall not surely die. God said if you eat of the tree of good and evil, you shall surely die. One being the devil lied. That is deception. Then the devil also said, that when she eats there of, then your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. The devil first decieved her and then tempted her. When God first made man and his wife they were naked and not ashamed. When eve saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and the tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof and did eat and gave it to her husband. The eyes of both of them were opened, they knew that they were naked.
For lack of better words the word deception is better known as beguiled. In the King James bible it says, that eve said, the serpent beguiled me.
beguiled means to mislead by cheating or tricking: decieve 2. to deprive of or out of by deceit. 3. to charm or delight.

[kahljorn]

You need to read the entire chapter because uh the two trees are supposed to represent the aspects of being a god. One is the TREE OF LIFE which would give them immortality the other is the tree of good and evil and when god finds out about it he says, "Behold, they have become like us, to know good and evil and now I must remove them from the garden lest they eat of the tree of life and become immortal"
k that was like the first thing i said in this thread. that's like verse 22 or something.

they didn't die there's no where in the bible that says they died and it says that and you haven't quoted any verses I'm sorry you're making things up. They were supposed to die even if they touched it. And how can you die spiritually, what does that even mean? Please tell me what it means to die in spirit. Are you saying none of us have spirit because we can tell the difference between Good and Evil?

[Eddie]

My wife was reading this earlier and I was typing it. She was reading from Genesis Chapter 3: 3 Eve said, but of the fruit of the tree, which is in the midst of the garden God hath said ,God said you shall not eat of it,neither ye shall ye touch it,lest ye die. When she ate of the fruit of the tree is when she died and she also gave it to her husband And he died.
Now the bible doesnt say how they died but it does say they knew they where naked. When God first created them He made them not to be ashamed.When they ate they knew they where naked and hid from God.
You see they disobeyed God.That was the first sin.Disobedience is where they fell ( died ) .Sin separates you from God.Causeing you to be spiritualty dead.So yes everyone is spirtualy dead until they confess there sin and ask Jesus to come into there heart.Then they are born again. Not in the womb born again but spiritualty born again. If you read I believe its in John 3;3 . Jesus said to the nicodemus unless you be born again you cant not enter the kingdom of God.Nicodemus said how can a man be born when he is old?Can he enter a second time in his mother womb and be born?Jesus answered verily verily I say unto you expect a man be born of water and of the spirit He can not enter into the kingdom of God.That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit .

[sadie]

the way i understand it, adam and eve were originally going to live forever in the flesh. when they ate the fruit, they were cursed to die a mortal death. rebirth is about eternal life. and spiritual death is not being able to live forever spiritually speaking.

[zeldasbiggestfan]

Originally Posted by executioneer

man haven't you ever seen spaceballs evil always triumphs over good because good is dumb

They never listen!

[kahljorn]

Sadie I already tried to cover that. The tree of life was supposed to give immortality and God being afraid of them eatting the tree of life and becoming immortal is why he kicked them out.


1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us [as Gods], knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, [and become as us, immortal,] and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life

God just didn't want equals he didn't want man to be immortal.

k thanks. Yes Beguile is a better word maybe but the snake still didn't lie to her or trick her he just told her the truth and she did it because she wanted wisdom and because the fruit looked tasty. I didn't include that part but it's also in there.

They didn't die in spirit that's retarded. God was just pissed off because we weren't ignorant creatures anymore which is what he wanted-- if even that. In my opinion it's supposed to be a mythology about how man came to know the difference between good and evil. Apparantly it's GOOD and spiritual to not be able to tell the difference. That's great. Maybe if we cast out our sinful nature of being able to tell what sin is and kill everyone we see it won't be a sin because we won't be able to tell the difference!
Apparantly sociopaths are gods true chosen people-- FROM THE HEAVENS ITS THE SON OF MAN. Who are some famous sociopaths anyway? Like every Serial-killer? God loves serial killers

I don't see how disobeying god is either a sin or would result in the death of spirit. I guess you're saying spirit is just our ability to obey God. That's fucking stupid. I never thought that christianity was THIS retarded. It sounds like a child's gimmick.

[Eddie]

Okay , unfortanutly for you that you see it that way. You said about a childs gimmik.Jesus did say unless you have a heart like a child you will not recieve the kingdom of God. Meaning to believe.

Reasoning and logic will not help with understanding or even come close to faith.
I am sad to hear that you just do not believe the bible.It is true and I hope that you will come to believe.
We where never created to live on our own.We where created to trust in rely on God.He knows what is best for us , if you believe.
In my own personal experiance God has never disappointanted me.
Ive prayed for help in many areas of my life and God answered my prayers cause I believe.
Okay sometimes He doesnt answer them right when I wont them answered but He does answer. Gods timeing is perfect.
There has been times where I have prayed like God I need 310.00 for car insurance by the 21 st of Dec. Funny how on the 21 st I got a check in the mail for 307.89 It was like a rebate check from the insurance company.Perfect timing. God said in His word He would supply all of your needs. And He does.
Another thing that was awesome about God even though Adam and Eve disobeyed God.He still provided for them.

[Grislygus]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Reasoning and logic will not help with understanding or even come close to faith.
I am sad to hear that you just do not believe the bible.It is true and I hope that you will come to believe.
We where never created to live on our own.We where created to trust in rely on God.He knows what is best for us , if you believe.
In my own personal experiance God has never disappointanted me.
Ive prayed for help in many areas of my life and God answered my prayers cause I believe

I DO trust and rely in God. I do not, however, trust the fucks who were in the Catholic Church at the time of the bible's conception.

[Ant10708]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

I never thought that christianity was THIS retarded. It sounds like a child's gimmick.

Let's not forget it is featured in the Old Testament originally meant for Judism not retarded christianity. And it is a myth to explain how man learned between good and evil and why we have orginal sin.

[kahljorn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin

Adam and Eve's sin, as recounted in the Book of Genesis is sometimes called in Hebrew החטא הקדמון (the original sin), on the basis of the traditional Christian term. But the term used in classical Jewish literature is חטא אדם הראשׁון (the sin of the first man, or of Adam).
...
The more modern liberal branches of Judaism, such as Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism, which see no "evil" other than the evil actions of human beings, disagree with traditions that identify the serpent with Satan. Eve's only transgression was that she disobeyed God's order. Adam was with her the entire time and at no time stopped her. Therefore, it is incorrect to blame Eve alone. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden and had to live ordinary, human lives. In other words, they had to "leave home" and grow up and live as responsible human beings. If they had never eaten from the forbidden tree, they would never have discovered their capacity to do evil. God gave Adam and Eve free will when he created them, but it was not until they ate the fruit that they became aware of the possibility of choosing to do evil or to do good, as they originally had no knowledge of both.


that page also cites Ezelekiel 18:20 which apparantly says that children are not to be held accountable for their parents sin.

[ursafan729]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Sadie I already tried to cover that. The tree of life was supposed to give immortality and God being afraid of them eatting the tree of life and becoming immortal is why he kicked them out.

It was not until AFTER they ate the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that God kicked them out of the garden. BEFORE that, if they had eaten of the tree of life, they would have lived forever, and God wanted them to live forever in a sinless state of being, which is why He put the tree of life in the garden. But AFTER they ate the forbidden fruit and consequentially become subject to death, they were no longer sinless, and God had to kick them out because if they had eaten from the tree of life AFTER eating the forbidden fruit, they would have degenerated over the centuries into basically another Satan, so they became mortal.

[Fathom Zero]

What..?

[Eddie]

hey hey how are you guys doing? still into Zod?

[Eddie]

hey hey how are you guys doing?

[MLE]

Jesus christ there's a lot of WORDS on this page.