What if you're not that smart?

[sspadowsky]

I swallow my pride here. Not in the sense of certain people whose initials start with VinceZeb, because folk like that don't understand the concept of swallowing pride. But there are a number of individuals here whose intellects consistently amaze me, such as Spinster (aka theapportioner), sethomas, and others who have the patience to ponder the existential, the incomprehensible, and the metaphysical.

I don't have that kind of patience. Some things I am just willing to let go of, like "Where do we come from," "Why are we here," "Is there a God," and so forth. I do think about these things, and they trouble me quite a bit sometimes, but, ultimately, I let go, because these are issues that mankind has pondered as long as history has been recorded, and, try as I might, it all starts to sound like Charlie Brown's parents after a while.

Doing what you can is a fine pursuit, but, in the long run, how worried are you about certain things that are simply beyond your control and comprehension? People can talk about objectivism, and many other terms that I can't think of at the moment, but to me, it all amounts to a bunch of people jerking each other off. Why not do what you can do to affect positive change, live a fulfilling life, and let the rest go according to fate, or whatever you want to call it?

I don't know if this makes any sense at all, and it probably amounts to little more than additional intellectual masturbation, but I'd like to hear what most of you think. What if some of these topics are merely silliness? At what point are you willing to say, "I give, let's just see what unfolds?"

Goddammit, this isn't coming across at all as I intended, but as Pink said, "Let's get this party started."

[Perndog]

Why not do what you can do to affect positive change, live a fulfilling life...

Philosophy (aka intellectual masturbation) is itself fulfilling and stimulating for a lot of people even if it doesn't translate to amazing new truths, answered questions, or applicability to real life (and it sometimes does). Think of the last time you or someone you know spent an hour in front of the TV and compare it to a person who spent an hour debating metaphysics. It is probable that neither one changed anything or made anything significant happen as a result of that hour. But the intellectual probably had at least a good a time as the guy with the boob tube.

Beyond that, there are some questions that everyone answers individually - "How should I live my life?" "What are my values?" etc. will always be the subjects of debate because no one has come up with an irrefutable answer yet coming to individual conclusions (or partial ones at least) on these issues makes a person's life more fulfilling and purposeful. For religious types, metaphysics and theology fall under this category as well, because if you believe in a god, the nature of that god has a direct bearing on how you should behave and what your more specific beliefs should be. From an atheistic standpoint, I don't feel the need to actually worry about metaphysics because I'm already leaning well toward the "nothing I learn about the universe will matter" camp (I don't really *worry* about anything), but there's always a chance I might discover something important.

I posted this, like just about everything I post in philosophy, because it is a more satisfying use of my time than a lot of other things I could be doing instead (like posting in other forums), *and* it could lead me to some new insight, which is what differentiates discussion of the existential, the incomprehensible, and the metaphysical from discussion of the temporal and the mundane. Whether or not it leads me to a revelation, it feels good now. Intellectual masturbation, indeed.

[kahljorn]

Living your life positively can have negative consequences on other people HOW'S THAT FOR STUFF THATS COMPLICATED.

[sspadowsky]

See, Pern, this is my issue: I want to be on the cusp of some amazing, irrefutable truth that will unify us. That's my problem.

OK, I didn't mean to classify Philosohpy as "intellectual masturbation." I meant that strictly within the confines of this boaRd, because, honestly, some of it IS intellectual masturbation. Discussion of Philosophy is great; I am perpetually open to new ideas.

See, my point is, I can't think of ANY time in the past fifteen years of my life that I spent an hour watching TV and subsequently spent an hour debating ANYTHING of consequence. Because we were all probably drunk.

What I'm going for is (I think) this: Some of us don't have the patience to think about these things. OK? I want to do something good, I want to help the homeless, I want to make the world a better place for everyone, but some of these debates just irritate the shit out of me. I'M TRYING TO FIND MY PLACE, GODDAMMIT, OK? I want to do something good, I want to stimulate debate. I'm merely concerned for those of us who admittedly aren't that brilliant. We're not going to solve everything, we're probably only going to create more argument (whixch has its own inherent beauty), but these people are my target audience. What if you have feelings but don't have the patience and articulation of Spinster, Max, and sethomas? WHERE IS OUR REFUGE, I ASK YOU? To hell with it. I don't even know at this point. Bring out the ranting from all corners.

[Perndog]

Okay, I see where you're coming from.

I rather like the term "intellectual masturbation." I use it to describe politics all the time.

So you've already got my rant. Whether you count me among the smart people or not, that's about all I have to say on the topic. My only addition in light of your revised question is that I strongly doubt the existence of some amazing, irrefutable, and unifying truth, which is why I don't spend even *more* of my time pounding the mental pork.

[sspadowsky]

Thank you. Pork-pounding relazed. Unless you mean it in the breakfast sense, because I LOVES my bacon. Even then, fuck you. EDIT: I didn't mean "fuck you" in a negative sense. It just made me hungry for bacon, that's all. So I meant, "fuck your pork-talk. I'ma eat me some bizz-acon."

:fryin'. Pigs is TASTY, nigga.

[kahljorn]

I love sitting around drunk/high talking metaphysics and philosophy. It's the only best way to do it!

[ziggytrix]

But it gets old, Kahl.

There's only so many times one can implode their mind with fantastic realizations before one implodes it with fatalistic realization.

(and yes, that was meant more to sound smart than to actually be smart)

[glowbelly]

i'm pretty much happy with just letting things be, until i come across a situation where i have to think about 'em.

some people will accuse me of being vapid, but i'm not. i just take life as it comes, act in a way that i believe is right and make my decisions accordingly.

i don't think there's anything wrong with that. see? that's why i do things this way.

plus, fancy talk makes my head spin.

[Brandon]

I'm not sure if I should be insulted right now or not, sspad. You're basically accusing all the posters here who enjoy discussing things like metaphysics (and I'm in the bunch) of being pompous blowhards who waste their time with "intellectual masturbation." When you get right down to it, the entire philosophy forum is just a backdrop for cerebral bishop-choking. Should we just get rid of it, then, since it's not making the world a better place?

I mean, I don't think anyone here is "deeply troubled" by unsettled philosophical issues, but some of us enjoy talking about them anyway. If you disapprove, you can kindly ignore those threads. Simple.

[kahljorn]

I'm DEEPLY TROUBLED, and who cares if someone talks shit on your philosophy and way of thought. Quit being a sensitive prick, it's just a perception of reality, or as Robert anton wilson would say a reality tunnel, and there's nothing any better to one than the other. If the entire world was made up of SCIENTISTS and PHILOSOPHERS who wo uld recycle our feces and clean the floors, and grow food!? I dunno, the "lower caste" so to speak has always been needed.

Also, talking philosophy and metaphysics never gets old, Maybe you just don't make enough new discoveries to keep it going? I think up something new like everyday, and hit big creamy veins occasionally as well. Besides the consciousness manipulation...

And anyway, after you get tired of the talk and chit-chat, that's when you start putting it to use. Practicing your occultism and trying to see into the unseen metaphysical realm. THEN WHAT, THEN YOU HAVE EXPERIENCES AND RESULTS to talk about, and new ideas to try out built on those other ideas.

BLAM, you couldn't exhaust the kn owledge you can gain in this lifetime. That's why immortality sucks. DONT EXHAUST IT.

[glowbelly]

i don't think sspad was talking down to you smarties as much as he is frustrated with his own way of thinking.

one of the problems with people who think too much is that they believe they are the center of the universe.

haha.

i crack myself up.

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by glowbelly

i don't think sspad was talking down to you smarties as much as he is frustrated with his own way of thinking.

one of the problems with people who think too much is that they believe they are the center of the universe.

haha.

i crack myself up.

[Perndog]

Do the things imaginary demons whisper into your ears while you're acid-tripping really count as "knowledge," kahl?

[sspadowsky]

Originally Posted by glowbelly

i don't think sspad was talking down to you smarties as much as he is frustrated with his own way of thinking.

one of the problems with people who think too much is that they believe they are the center of the universe.

haha.

i crack myself up.

Glowbelly nailed it, folks. "Remove the sticks from thy sphincters," saith the Lord. It was an inward question directed at my own intellectual limitations, and an attempt at finding how others perceive their own intellectual limitations. Relax. Jesus.

[kahljorn]

I see intellectual limitations as only existant if you limit yo urself as a person.. I mean, once you say, "I'm not gay, I believe in God, and i don't like the poor class" there's only a certain number of thoughts you can support, all the others MUST become "Lies".
That's pretty much how it functions... that is why the most basic exercise written by Aleister Crowley was personality "shapeshifting" so to speak... like, besides the watch what you do and say, he had his third lesson that basically said:
Have a personality for each finger, and a ring for the personality you are using. When your ring is on a finger, you act out that personality to a T, you think like them, you argue like them, you eat like them. You shit and piss like them. After a while it all begins to absorb in, and you realize your personality is just bullshit anyway, like mine. It's obvious I'm bullshit, look at what I'm saying. I act smart when I'm obviously one of the least intelligent people on this board.
All people think their thoughts are the absolute truth(see, I just stated that with the determination of someone who thinks they are right), even I do and everyone but me is probably right and I'm likely the furthest from the truth. I don't know, deep down everyone knows their limitation is just something they put on themselves, even if they are slow. I mean, slow people can be "Slow" and use that as an excuse to not read, "I don't understand it". Whatever, they understand or they wouldnt know how to read, and besides the original dictatamy(YES!) placed upon them was likely done by themselves on some astral plane decadence of reincarnation whereby some kind of swimming pool has the tide pool side and those bored and numb swim into it's twisty twistness for a chance at human wonderfulness.
I'm not honestly sure how stupid people fit into it, but even stupid people have a certain capacity that they do not fill. I think that is how they fit in, just because a person is stupid doesn't mean they couldn't read the Harry Potter series within their life time, it just means it might take up the majority... and most stupid people wouldnt even get started on it. yes. See, I just learned something while posting this. It's easy to create your own reality.

Also, not knowing something is the same as knowing it.

AS NIETZCHE SAYS, "We are all greater artists than we realize"

[Supafly345]

I have observed that there is a difference sometimes between sophistication, creativity, knowledge, culture, and brilliance. There are people who drink books deep, and offer well-developed points of view from literature. Some are deep into philosophy, and use the teachings of great minds long ago to properly discuss local debates. Some are able to manifest new points of view entirely; that change the entire course of a conversation, or end it. Many are just brilliant minds, that may not be well seasoned in study, but are superb at logistics- thinking out conflicts accurately and good at weighing the given facts to find an intelligent answer (these people tend to learn quickly).
Of course there are the self-crowned intellectual behemoths, who may be very smart, but aren't quite smart as they let on. They have mor intelligence than they probably should have, since they aren't mature enough to not make an ass of themselves trying to use it.

I make no assumptions on my own mind, but from my perspective, there are many great minds around here already, each in different ways. I think as long as we don't over step our intallectual limits, and tread on territory that be best left to others, we can apply ourselves fully to the proper argument. Just because someone doesn't know much about the spiritual, doesn't make them stupid. Just because a person never persued a college education, doesn't mean they aren't wise. And just because someone doesn't appreciate certain artforms, doesn't mean they aren't cultured.

[kahljorn]

That's basically what i was saying..., "We are all greater artists then we realize" i love that quote in so many ways.

We sho uld have a thread where we pump up eachothers egos and tell eachother how smart we are, an dhow we're smart. Then also tell how they aren't smart. Yes... I need an ego pumping.

[Perndog]

You're smart, kahl. Weird, but smart.