How bad is the Hammas victory?

[mburbank]

'Cause it seems pretty damn bad to me, bordering on catastrophic. Now the only missing ingredient for a total meltdown is Netanyahu.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

another excuse for Israel and the US....like they needed an excuse.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I think you're asking the wrong question.

If Hamas is willing to disarm (not gonna happen), stop attacking Israel, and enter strictly the realm of politics, then it could be workable.

It does the Palestinians no good to have a political party with an armed wing, simultaneously undermining their security forces, attacking Israel.

[Geggy]

Is it true that Hamas is working for Israel? Just what I heard, is all.

[mburbank]

uhmmm..... no.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Geggy

Is it true that Hamas is working for Israel? Just what I heard, is all.

Donnie, please.

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

It does the Palestinians no good to have a political party with an armed wing, simultaneously undermining their security forces, attacking Israel.

How is "having arms" different than "having an army" and is there any way Hamas could transition between those two states without completely disarming?

Asking them to cease attacks Israel is a no-brainer, but at the same time they're gonna need Israel to cease air strikes on "suspected terrorist" hideouts, especially if those terrorists are now supposed to be legitimate leaders.

There's gotta be give and take from both sides.

[Riggo44]

All the surrounding Arabic countries are gonna hate Isreal till the end of time unfortunately. As far as Palestine you can include most of those people as well considering they believe the state of Isreal is on their land.....

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Thanks, Riggo.

Ziggy, to my understanding, they already have an army. To have an armed Hamas only contradicts the military/policing efforts of the state, IMO.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Hamas celebrates election win with sweets, gunfire



""Mohammad Deif should be our defence minister," screamed one Hamas supporter from a car window, referring to the Hamas military leader who tops Israel's wanted list.

Eighteen-year-old Saleh Ahmed said: "It is our time to take the lead now. Those who paid with their blood to defend their people, will do their best to serve them.""

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

I think you're asking the wrong question.

If Hamas is willing to disarm (not gonna happen), stop attacking Israel, and enter strictly the realm of politics, then it could be workable.

It does the Palestinians no good to have a political party with an armed wing, simultaneously undermining their security forces, attacking Israel.

I agree. I think it's wrong to have such a political party represent an entire country. Now instead of calling a minority of Palestinians "terrorists," Palestine will be defined as "home of the terrorist nation."

Hamas are willing to work as hard and as fast as they can to stir up more shit and rile Israel up. This will not make the US happy. And we all know what happens when the US is not only unhappy, but ignored and eventually threatened.

The US has a lot on its plate right now. That's 2 extremely controversial political groups leading 2 countries (Palestine and Iran) that might get the US in trouble in terms of the reputation it might get from outsiders, such as the case with Iraq. This is where it gets tricky.

If the US really wants to be safe at this point, it would speak softly and carry a big stick, as the saying goes.

[Geggy]

Just checking. I wasn't sure if he was working for Israel to trick the Plaestinians into gteting pumped up and ready to fight Israel without a chance in hell of winning or that Hamas is just fucking suicidal.

It's unfortunate the US troops are caught in the middle of lovers' quarrel while thyre already in Iraq. Now it looks they will have to protect Israel with their army. (Why am I getting the feeling that Israel owns US?)

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/index.html
Nice knowing you, Palestine.

Edit: link fixed.

[ItalianStereotype]

Riggo! as one of the greatest intellectual minds of our generation, what is your opinion on the "the sky is blue" issue?

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

All the surrounding Arabic countries are gonna hate Isreal till the end of time unfortunately.

At least we no longer boycott Israeli products. That's one step forward.

[Abcdxxxx]

It's near impossible to live in this century and boycott Israeli products. Kleenex anyone? Vaccination for bird flue? Instant Messaging?


Well at least now we know the majority of Palestinians really want peace. The upside is the argument that without the corruption of Fatah, there could be some progress. The downside is if you're a liberal, gay, feminist or religious moderate Palestinian, life just got that much worse. Fatah were no different, in their goals or track record. This is just a replay of the legitamization of Arafat & Fatah - only this time a lot more people are informed, and aware of how problematic this is. (Fatah had a candidate running who went by the nickname "Hitler" by the way). At least in this case, it sounds like Hamas won the democratic way.

On a side note, a couple days before the elections, Netenyahu said he would continue to make "comprimise", and likely return land.

geggy - Not to wind you up, but Hamas started as a social organization, and at one point did receive assistance from Israel for a short time,(as have literally EVERY other Palestinian organization) in hopes they could support what they hoped would be moderate Palestinians. This was back in the 80's when Socialists were pushing for negotiations of some sort. That was one of the experiments they tried. It was a mistake.

[kahljorn]

IT'S AN EXPERIMENT GONE WRONG OH NO WHO WILL STOP DR. EVILSTEEN?

[El Blanco]

Hamas has legitamacy now. Which comes with a price.

Now, their leaders can't hide in residential neigborhoods while sending out their suicide bombers. They need to be a very public, central location in order to perform the jobs of a government.

This means, Israel just needs to look one place with a lot more certainty that the target will be there with a big drop off in civilian casualties.

[ziggytrix]

A downside being a tactical strike on a terrorist leader is understandable, while a tactical strike on an elected official is more like an act of war. It's just semantics, but still.

[El Blanco]

Well, if that government just sent a suicide bomber to wax a few dozen of your civilians, I'm pretty sure the war has already started.

[ScruU2wice]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

It's near impossible to live in this century and boycott Israeli products. Kleenex anyone? Vaccination for bird flue? Instant Messaging?

Don't forget the media and the banks.

:jewishconspiracy

[Abcdxxxx]

That's right Scru. We can control your mind through Seinfeld DVD boxsets and Ralph Lauren jeans.

Fatah party sponsored plenty of terrorist attacks through Al Aksa Martyrs. Fatah has also allowed Hamas operatives to shoot rockets into Israel on a daily basis, since taking Gaza.

I doubt Hamas will stop, so will these attacks finally be perceived as State sponsored acts of war? Palestine still isn't an official state, but I would agree that Israel's targeted killings would be considered an act of war.... or more probable, a soveriegn nation excercising it's right to self defense, through retaliation.

[imported_I, fuzzbot.]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

We can control your mind through Seinfeld DVD boxsets and Ralph Lauren jeans.

This guy's like a one-man show. He makes us all laugh.

Fatah party sponsored plenty of terrorist attacks through Al Aksa Martyrs

He knows his shit, too. He must've been studying it for decades.

Anyways. According to the "headlines" on Yahoo: "Hamas election victory shocks world".... and I wonder, how can anyone who pays attention in the least to world politics, be shocked at all?

In fact, it seems to make a lot of sense to me that Hamas would win.

I mean, does "the world" think the Islamic world can continue to politically take it up the ass forever?

Between warring ideologies, there is really no end in sight. What surprises me is how Palestine and Israel haven't managed to completely obilterate each other altogether.... and how rational people would desire to get involved in such a conflict.

[ziggytrix]

I guess it all hinges on who blows up who next. First one to strike gets the dirty label thrown on em.

It's like the Haskells and the McCoy's. Y'all been a-feudin as long as y'all can remember.

And the REALLY retarded part is that if you ask either side, it's ALL the other side's fault.

[Big Papa Goat]

Now that you mention it, palestinians recognizing Israels right to exist and negotiating with them is pretty much impossible to comprehend.

[Abcdxxxx]

"desire to get involved" ? This conflict was thrust on them. Jews have always been in the Middle East. The real question is who wants to co-exist.


You have to be a total bozo to apply the tired old feud analogy to what's happening.