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  #51  
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:26 PM       
Incorrect SSpadowsky. Even Saddam has admitted to much more than he has come forward and said he destroyed. Where is the Sarin? We know he has it. We know because he told us. But he hasn't been able to tell us when it was destroyed, has he?

The list goes on and on.

Staged car accidents whilst inspectors approach, false leads, games, lies.... it al comes down to this - he wants to play - it a game? - lets play
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  #52  
sspadowsky sspadowsky is offline
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:28 PM       
EDIT: Directed at bombs.....

Try debating, you puss. You know, facts, arguments..... stuff that requires typing more than one sentence. I don't know if it's because you're scared, or uninformed, or simply not competent enough to type more than that, but just give it a try. Jerkoff.
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  #53  
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:30 PM       
Okay, I have kids, and I have to say your parent child analogy is patronizing, is not at all paralell and shallow. East analogies always suck, but try this one on for size. W. and Sadam as petulant toddlers duking it out at a poorly supervised daycare.

See, it's fun, but then you realize yoiu never had mass deaths or the third world war coming from a spat between anklebiters.

Your theory about Iraq using cargo ships to put a nuke into america is based on what... The fact that they could do it if they had one and didn't get caught? This makes them different from other big chunks of the world that hate us more each day, how? Oh, yeah, I forgot. some of those folks actually have nuclear weapons. I think your right, the UN will almost certainly prove useless in our war to preempt everyone.

Your idea that everyone should pay equally into the UN is very nice. I like it. It goes hand in glove with MY idea that everyone on earth should split the resources evenly.

" Oh, by the way, if all Europeans share that attitude - next time the assholes on your side of the Atlantic decide to start a World War, don't come crying to us to bail your pansy asses out of it"

Okay, John Wayne, take a deep breath. I know a rugged combat vet like you could explode at any moment. Where do you want to draw the line in hostory about who owes what to whom? 'Cause it's fairly unlikely we'd have won the revolutionary war without their support, so maybe we should listen to them. I'm not really sure if it would have been a good idea to let the Nazis keep France though, even if we'd known they be so ungrateful. Yeah, next time we'll do the smart thing and let e'm go. Oh, and before you think I'm a frankophile, I fucking hate the French. Especially the arab french who are every bit as hateful and arrogant as the american negro.
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BombsBurstingInAir BombsBurstingInAir is offline
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:33 PM       
directed at spad:

what do you consider to be good sources for facts? numbnuts
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:35 PM       
That technically qualifies as more than one sentence. You're off to a good start.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:37 PM       
thanks.
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  #57  
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:39 PM       
D'OH! You were on a roll, and you JUST BLEW IT!
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:45 PM       
Listen there Peidko - I was merely making a point. That point being, rather than argue BECAUSE of unrelated issues, such as who controls the Euro, how about assisting us in arresting terrorists, and encouraging the United Nations to grow a pair of balls and act on it's own accords. I don't believe in the United Nations, never have. Why should we be the police when they deem it necessary, but not be allowed to police when the action is our own. There are plenty of countries whom support us in this action.

Answer me this question, and try to be honest rather than argumentative. If Iraq had an ICBM, do you believe it would fire it on America, or at least be more predisposed to than other civilized countries? If not fire it at us, how about strong arm the rest of the world with threats and God knows what else.... and, pleeeeease spare me the analogy spinning in your head right now that America does the same thing, because that is BULLSHIT. We do nothing to provoke terror, etc. If that was the case, we would have followed patton's advice or MacArthur's and continued straight through to Moscow, China, etc.

So, being that France, Germany, Russia, and China are not our strongest allies, doesn't it stand to reason that they may have alterior motives in their opposition?
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:54 PM       
You know, I absolutely do not buy into this idea that Hussein would drop the first nuke he could get his hands on on America. For one thing, he's got much more important issues with the surrounding countries (not to mention that evoking an all-out war with the world's last superpower - America - would be very bad for business, to say it lightly), and for another, does current technology even ALLOW a missile or nuclear weapon to reach the US, when launched from Iraq?
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 03:57 PM       
IF it had an ICBM and IF I had some concrete evidence that it intended to use it agressively and not just for deterence like everybody else, than YES, I'd probably feel different.

But yhou can play stupid ass games like that all day and its pretty useless.

What IF sadam has no weapons of mass destruction at all, what IF all US clims to the conttrary are lies, What IF sadam has had a mjor change of heart and spend all day now painting unicorns and rainbows.

Oh, and I forgot to answer your statemnt aabout governments having secrets they couldn't reveal that we had to trust them about.

I don't agree. I can think of tons of historical ezamples to the contrary, and since actual transperancy has NEVER been attempted, I don't think there's any way to argue the counter case. I do NOT trust my government blindly, I think it is my duty as an American not to and I think the founding fathers worked very hard to build the ASSUMPTION that tgovernment should not be trusted blindly into the concept of divided powers. I concider it my patriotic mduty to demand that whoever the President is, he is rigorously questioned. That's what freedom of the press is for, that is tyhe responsability every administreation tries to subvert and it's wht CNN is giving away like Logo T-shirts. TRUST my ass! Trust is anti-american.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 04:03 PM       
It was a hypothetical situation. I am demonstrating my assumption that he "could" in fact be a major threat. Whereas you say we have no definitive evidence that he has WMA, I say you have none that he doesn't. In a situation of such magnitude, I do not believe that you are innocent until proven guilty... particularly when you won't even cooperate with those working to prove your innocence. If he doesn't have them, then he needs to quit playing games. Although no one wants to see a war, his actions are limiting our reactions. In the end, there will be no other choice.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 04:12 PM       
Who would say to blindly trust them?

The Constitution deliberately dispersed powers to states for that very reason... so they would not grow overly powerful and become a force that is to be blindly trusted by their own volition.

However, the Constitution, when interpreted literally does in fact call for the federal government to provide defense and roads. Part of providing adequate defense in our modern culture is to maintain a "database" of intelligence and covert findings. Leaks are not an option, as they do, in fact, lower that security.

Lets not forget, we are a representative democracy. We are not supposed to "trust" our elected officials decisions, we are our elected officials decisions. The electoral college is there specifically for that reason.

There are numerous checks and balances throughout the system which could stop Bush dead in his tracks, and you KNOW that Burbank.

The fact is that not only does the administration agree with it, but so does the former administration, as does congress overwhelmingly.
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BombsBurstingInAir BombsBurstingInAir is offline
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 04:35 PM       
Whatever you do Pantitude, don't use the word "republic" in arguements of this fashion. It is a time bomb.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 04:38 PM       
Only cause they're all a bunch of weiners.


Seriously though, here's my hypothetical situation, okay? Bush is actually religous fanatic convinced God speaks to him. He's been told we are rappidly approaching armageddon, Saddam is the anti Christ and he is required BY THE LORD GOD to escalate the conflcit to Nuclear as soon as we go in. He's the commander in chief, no one cn stop him once we're militarily commited and you DON'T say NO TO GOD!!

You know. Hypothetically. I mean, you have no proof this ISN'T what he's planning. In a situation of such magnitude, I do not believe that you are innocent until proven guilty.
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  #65  
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 05:27 PM       
I have to wonder if expecting the Iraqi people to take to democracy is a bit like expecting an only child to know how to share and play nice with others. I'm not sure bombing them really makes sense. I hate to agree with dimwit Herbivore, but there are far bigger offendors we're calling allies who would make for much better targets if we're going to make anyone a target at all.

That said - what purpose does this nonsense about talking up Hussein's good points serve????? Yeah they have a great sewage and garbage system... because he's a crazed maniac with fucked up priorities. Iraq IS oppressive.

- Hussein DID gas the kurds,
- he was involved with wiping out an entire Jewish community
-he did attack neighboring countrys unprovoked,
- he has financially rewarded the families of Palestinians that commit suicide, and funded groups on our most wanted terrorist list
- he was involved in the first WTC bombing!!!!
- he has harbored terrorists such as abu nidal and allowed refuge for al qaeda training camps on occassion.
- he has actively created and USED chemicals on innocents
- he has kept prisoners of war
- and finally... he has violated UN resolutions, only it's the least of his sins.

To say he provides free education, or even free haircuts for that matter means very little. Women are allowed to school in Iraq? How many female doctors, lawyers, politicians, scientists etc. are there in Iraq???? You can call him a moderate and compare the worser of two evils, but evil is still evil. You can be anti war without being pro Saddam. Try it.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 05:48 PM       
Abcd, you miss the point; at least you miss mine. I don't think Saddam is a good guy, OK? I don't want to have him over for dinner, I'm not inviting him to join Kiwanis, get it?

He's a scapegoat in this case. A handy target. My contention is that, yes, we're going in there and taking him out, but we're not being told the truth about WHY we're really going over there. That is what pisses me off. Is he a bad guy? Certainly. Are there a whole shitload of dictators the world over who are probably just as bad? You better believe it. So I guess we better start bombing them, too.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 06:05 PM       
http://www.ott.doe.gov/facts/archives/fotw246.shtml
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 06:11 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by HNICPantitude
Incorrect SSpadowsky. Even Saddam has admitted to much more than he has come forward and said he destroyed. Where is the Sarin? We know he has it. We know because he told us. But he hasn't been able to tell us when it was destroyed, has he?
During the 90s, when Scott Ritter was the head inspector during the inspections in which these posessions were stated, yes, Saddam said he had these things. Some have argued though that he was lying then, among other reasons, in order to posture himself (this is common during arms agreements, you need to give SOMETHING up, so why not lie and say you have something?).

Now, when reviewing the dossier, The U.S. is saying "where is THIS!!??" We knew then he was probably full of shit. Now we want him to be honest, because it furthers our war aims.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 06:24 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
I hate to agree with dimwit Herbivore, but there are far bigger offendors we're calling allies who would make for much better targets if we're going to make anyone a target at all.
You and I are going to be hanging out and stuff really soon, just like close "buds."

Quote:
That said - what purpose does this nonsense about talking up Hussein's good points serve????? Yeah they have a great sewage and garbage system... because he's a crazed maniac with fucked up priorities. Iraq IS oppressive.
Agreed. But you miss the point, and by doing so you perpetuate this same black/white reality that panties perpetuates.

Neither myself, nor anybody else I know of, uses the "good points" of Iraq to defend his actions. To say otherwise means your taking it out of context.

For example, I mainly brought up the "advanced" status of Iraq when Panty ass started talking about how us "modern" Americans will "modernize" the rest of the Arab world, and how they will love us for it.

Quote:
To say he provides free education, or even free haircuts for that matter means very little. Women are allowed to school in Iraq? How many female doctors, lawyers, politicians, scientists etc. are there in Iraq???? You can call him a moderate and compare the worser of two evils, but evil is still evil.
No one is calling HIM moderate. You gave an accurate criticism of Hussein, and I agree with you. But talking of Iraq in a context that isn't true (ie. panties over his head) just to further his war hopes is wrong. I'll use your logic: Why say that sanctions are a myth, that they hurt nobody, and that Saddam could make everyone in Iraq rich if he wanted??? Why not stick to relevant criticisms??

Quote:
You can be anti war without being pro Saddam. Try it.
NOTE TO SELF: Cancel annual subscrition to "Saddamy whammy," the annual pin-up magazine/fan club for lovers of Iraqi dictators. Don't be so naive. People on these boards don't support Hussein, and to imply otherwise is just silly. We do believe in looking at the whole picture, which includes looking at relations with Iraq prior to 1990, the status of Iraqi civilization prior to 1990, etc. Just some random examples.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 06:36 PM        lol
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NOTE TO SELF: Cancel annual subscrition to "Saddamy whammy," the annual pin-up magazine/fan club for lovers of Iraqi dictators.

OMG......
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 07:41 PM       
"People on these boards don't support Hussein, and to imply otherwise is just silly. We do believe in looking at the whole picture, which includes looking at relations with Iraq prior to 1990, the status of Iraqi civilization prior to 1990, etc. Just some random examples."

Say what? Point me where all this talk of pre-1990 Iraq's been going on. Maybe you're getting the board confused with those little Mockery jamborees you all hold at the local TGIF Fridays Happy Hour??

You yourself mentioned Iraq's sewage system. Why? Is it really consequential? Does it really paint the various shades missing from your underwear friends argument? Nopers.


Spads - I vaguely agree, and my comments weren't directed towards you. Saddam has his fingers in a lot of pockets so I'm not sure we're really scapegoating him... but we are ignoring a lot of other like minded dictators who are someones problem... I'm just not sure it should be ours.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 07:43 PM       
"People on these boards don't support Hussein, and to imply otherwise is just silly. We do believe in looking at the whole picture, which includes looking at relations with Iraq prior to 1990, the status of Iraqi civilization prior to 1990, etc. Just some random examples."

Say what? Point me where all this talk of pre-1990 Iraq's been going on. Maybe you're getting the board confused with those little Mockery jamborees you all hold at the local TGIF Fridays Happy Hour??

You yourself mentioned Iraq's sewage system. Why? Is it really consequential? Does it really paint the various shades missing from your underwear friends argument? Nopers.


Spads - I vaguely agree, and my comments weren't directed towards you. Saddam has his fingers in a lot of pockets so I'm not sure we're really scapegoating him... but we are ignoring a lot of other like minded dictators who are someones problem... I'm just not sure it should be ours.
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 08:04 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Say what? Point me where all this talk of pre-1990 Iraq's been going on.
Read below.

Quote:
You yourself mentioned Iraq's sewage system. Why? Is it really consequential? Does it really paint the various shades missing from your underwear friends argument? Nopers.
Hmm, you wonder where the pre-Gulf War conversations are, but then when it's brought up you call it inconsequential...?

And aside from my underwear, I don't see how talking about the status of Iraq before it was blown to kingdom come, and then sanctioned, isn't relevant to conversation.

Quote:
Maybe you're getting the board confused with those little Mockery jamborees you all hold at the local TGIF Fridays Happy Hour??
Look, you were sent a invitation, and I don't buy that bull about the dog rubbing it's ass all over the mail and rubbing out the words....try again.
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  #74  
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 09:22 PM       
EDIT: GOD DAMMIT

I KNOW THERE WAS AN APOSTRAPHE AND A "T" IN THAT STATEMENT






IN MY HEAD
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  #75  
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 10:50 PM       
Proto, take a second & look closer. :/
He is saying something stupid, but not what you think he is.
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