Terrorists can come into this country and buy an AK47?

[Preechr]

Kerry just said terrorists can now, thanks to Dubya's inaction on the assault weapons ban, come to this country and go to a gun show and buy an assault weapon, and he specifically inferred that he was talking about an AK47, without a background check.

That's possibly the biggest lie of this campaign.

[ThisIsWitty]

Don't worry. In a few weeks he'll decide gun shows are the safest place in the world.

[Preechr]

I feel better now that I know Native Americans gave him a blessing the other day.

[ThisIsWitty]

He's like a god to them. What with his totem-pole-esq head and everything.

[Preechr]

ROFL

[El Blanco]

Considering how you can travel through Africa and pick up one for $3, I like the idea of terrorists actually being stupid enough to come here and buy them.

I don't think they want to walk through our gun shows anymore than I want to sit in on one of their recruiting drives.

[kahljorn]

I'm pretty sure he didn't say you could buy AK's from gun shows. I'm pretty sure what he said is that the terrorist handbook says to buy guns in america from gun shows. But that's just me, and i have this uncanny ability to comprehend what people are saying without mixing the previous sentence into things. You dyslexic assholes.

[Zhukov]

I think El Blanco pointed out why the 'terrorist handbook' probably wouldn't say to go to the US and buy one. Unless the terrorist were already in the US (sleeper cells and whatnot) and couldn't get out of the country.

Is it still possible to actually get one from a gun show though? Africa jsut doesn't excite me enough to warrant a trip.

[Anonymous]

I don't think all the terrorists in the world operate outside of North America. It's perfectly reasonable to think that a person can buy a gun from a gun show with an intent to spread terror, without being of middle eastern descent or even having a funny name.

But even if they do, the option's still there.

[Preechr]

When you buy a gun at a gun show, you are subject to a background check. I have bought a gun at a gun show, and I waited over an hour while they made sure it was safe for them to sell me a weapon. While this may be anecdotal and thus dismissable, when the told me he needed some info for the check, I asked him if there was any way to get around it, and he nearly walked away from me. It was pretty obvious that if I hadn't agreed to the check I wouldn't have gotten the gun.

As I waited, I asked him about the gun show rumor, and he assured me that it was bogus. You can no more get a gun legally at a show without getting checked out than you can at a Walmart. The only difference is the waiting period in those states that require it I believe, but my state doesn't have one so I'm not sure about that. Even if true, I'm not so sure a waiting period is any sort of effective deterrant to anything other than gun ownership itself.

[glowbelly]

just because you don't have a criminal record doesn't mean that you aren't capable of committing a huge crime.

i guess i'm just wondering what kind of background check can be done in an hour.

[Preechr]

Probably not much of one...

However, whether or not someone has a criminal record has no real bearing on their capability to commit a huge crime. Whether or not a criminal has a gun has no bearing on his willingness to commit a crime. There just is no test that could practically predict whether any particular gun will someday be used for criminal purposes.

The only option you have is to ban and confiscate every gun in the world and use them to shoot anyone with enough knowledge or sense to make one, which isn't very realistic. Anything short of that is a half-measure. Generally, any regulations that affect the legal purchase of a gun do nothing to hinder someone from obtaining one illegally or by stealing it. The people most affected by gun laws are those that wish to buy a gun to protect themselves from criminals. That seems a bit backward.

I got a .38 in an hour, though, so I don't figure the laws are all that strict.

[Anonymous]

Guns and their ammunition should be illegal in all but the hands of law enforcement agencies and the military. "Simple as that."

To compromise your entire nation's security just because you want to be a jackass and go traipsing in the woods to gun down water buffalo with a semi-automatic is worse than being immature, it's a fatal error of judgement and a fundamental issue with this country.

It's the same attitude the country has with nuclear weapons; We're not willing to lead by example. Japan and England haven't had firearms for a long time and they're safer nations because of it - In 1996, handguns were used to murder 15 people in Japan, 30 in Great Britain, and 9,390 in the United States, and this statistic has done nothing but worsen with time. If we were to have a firearms prohibition, the first few years would be a little rougher on the victims of violent crimes and armed robbery (assuming these people were somehow able to defend themselves with a firearm in the past, i.e. VERY few cases), but if the police force was increased to a reasonable number, it'd even out over a decade or so and serve to make this nation a lot less violent in the future.

You don't NEED to hunt. You don't NEED to defend yourself in a shootout at the O.K. corral. If someone wants to end your career with a gun - unless you have your defense surgically attached to your palm or the oracle warned you about it earlier in the day - there is fuck all you're gonna be able to do about it.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

They both made really outlandish claims in that debate. I enjoyed it.

[Preechr]

Yes, because we have a long, rich history of Prohibitions working in this country. That's why there are no illegal drugs anymore, because the prohibition we placed on them 60 years ago, though it was rough at the beginning, eventually worked out and drugs became impossible to find.

You need to factor in for the fact that America is simply a much larger country than either Japan (an island) or the UK (another island) and we are in the uneviable position of having to guard many hundred times more border than they do, with many, many more airports as well.

I bought my gun because I was worried that my fiance (at that time) was spending a lot of time at home alone, recovering from cancer, and needed the extra protection from a worst case scenario. I still own it, and have never actually fired it myself. It's a necessary evil, but necessary all the same.

BTW, automatic weapons being banned in this country has nothing at all to do with the current assault weapons ban. That's what makes Kerry's statement last night so outrageous. He starts off with, "I'm a hunter..." as if that buys him the right to say whatever the hell he wants. It's the same thing as if he were to say, "I love butt-sex with other men..." and then "all Homosexuals are abominations to God and every one of them likes to abduct children and do evil things with them."

[El Blanco]

Guns and their ammunition should be illegal in all but the hands of law enforcement agencies and the military. "Simple as that."

Thatrs a great idea. I will completly trust the government with that sort of power.

And, as we all know, police forces are omnipresent and appear as soon as we feel we are in danger. Its not like the SUPREME FUCKING COURT said they aren't responsible for each and every person's individual safety.

To compromise your entire nation's security

How does someone buying a pistol comprmise national security?

just because you want to be a jackass and go traipsing in the woods to gun down water buffalo with a semi-automatic is worse than being immature, it's a fatal error of judgement and a fundamental issue with this country.

Where is compared to talking out your ass about something you know nothing about?

Japan and England haven't had firearms for a long time and they're safer nations because of it

Bullshit. Violent crime has risen in England in the last 10 years. In fact, you are more likely to get mugged in London than in New York City.

Also, the cities in the US withthe highest violent crime rates also happen to have the strictest gun laws (Washington DC anyone?).

Also, you are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime in Enland than the US

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_ass_vic

About Japan. that is a completly different culture. People are much more subservient to authority. Is that the society you want?

If we were to have a firearms prohibition, the first few years would be a little rougher on the victims of violent crimes and armed robbery (assuming these people were somehow able to defend themselves with a firearm in the past, i.e. VERY few cases), but if the police force was increased to a reasonable number, it'd even out over a decade or so and serve to make this nation a lot less violent in the future.

You are aware drinking actually increased during prohibition, right?

And how is banning private ownership of firearms going to stop criminals from getting them? Why can't they import them or make their own?

[/quote]You don't NEED to hunt. You don't NEED to defend yourself in a shootout at the O.K. corral.

You don't need to use the internet. You don't need to protest.

And when was the last time you saw someone walking down the street with gun on their hip like they were Billy the Kid?

If someone wants to end your career with a gun - unless you have your defense surgically attached to your palm or the oracle warned you about it earlier in the day - there is fuck all you're gonna be able to do about it.

Or if you want to learn how to properly use a firearm. But, lets not have reality mess up your perfectly good brain fart.

[Ant10708]

El Blanco wins

[Ant10708]

Japan also has the highest rate of suicides which must really inconvenience them to not have a nice gun around to blow their brains out. I guess they probaly prefer the quieter hanging.

[AChimp]

Guns should be cheap, but bullets should cost $5000 each. :chrisrock :O

[Emu]

Originally Posted by Preechr

BTW, automatic weapons being banned in this country has nothing at all to do with the current assault weapons ban. That's what makes Kerry's statement last night so outrageous. He starts off with, "I'm a hunter..." as if that buys him the right to say whatever the hell he wants. It's the same thing as if he were to say, "I love butt-sex with other men..." and then "all Homosexuals are abominations to God and every one of them likes to abduct children and do evil things with them."

Not necessarily. You can hunt with a bow, too.

[FS]

yeah if you're BRUCE FUCKIN' WILLIS



...I really don't know why I said that.

[JPR]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_ass_vic

I sure do trust the scientists at NationMaster.com, where stats truely do come alive. Heart warming.

[El Blanco]

Damn, its not letting me edit my post to fix my bbcode raping.

Its a fucking liberal conspiracy.

[mew barios]

ive had this discussion with lots of people before, i support the right to own a gun. i would love to change my opinion onnit :( if someone could show me a concrete argument based in some kinda fact that a weapons ban actually makes people safer. it always looks like the opposite :/

[Crying Baby Jesus]

You can buy Variants of just about any AK weapon in north america, you can buy M16 that use .22 ammo, and semi-automatic sub machineguns such as the uzi. Just remember WHO's gonna buy these all BEFORE the terrorists. You'll all be better armed than they will