Israeli Airstrike Kills Hamas Founder

[KevinTheOmnivore]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040322/D81F6VR00.html

Israeli Airstrike Kills Hamas Founder

Mar 21, 11:47 PM (ET)

By IBRAHIM BARZAK

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Sheik Ahmed Yassin, the founder and leader of the Hamas militant group that targeted Israelis in suicide bombings, was killed by missiles fired from Israeli helicopters as he left a mosque at daybreak Monday, witnesses said.

Hamas confirmed the death in an announcement broadcast over mosque loudspeakers and vowed revenge against Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Witnesses said Israeli helicopters fired three missiles at the wheelchair-bound Yassin and two bodyguards as they left the mosque, killing them instantly.

A total of four people were killed and 12 were wounded in the attack, witnesses said.

Yussef Haddad, 35, a taxi driver, said he saw the missiles hit Yassin and the bodyguards.

"Their bodies were shattered," he said.

Yassin was by far the most senior Palestinian militant killed in more than three years of Israeli-Palestinian fighting. Since September 2000, 474 people - the majority of them Israelis - have been killed in 112 Palestinian suicide bombings.

Sharon's government has gone after militant leaders using Israeli helicopter gunships in a controversial policy that has resulted in a number of civilian casualties in addition to the deaths of senior figures in Hamas and other groups.

Yassin was viewed as an inspirational figure by his followers in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. His death could spur violent protests not only in the Palestinian areas but in the wider Arab and Islamic world, where he was well-regarded as a symbol of the Palestinian battle for independence.

Thousands of angry Palestinians gathered minutes after the attack, calling for revenge against Israel.

In announcing Yassin's death, Hamas said, "(Israeli Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon has opened the gates of hell and nothing will stop us from cutting off his head."

Ambulances and fire trucks raced to the scene with sirens wailing, and rescue workers gathered up the shattered bodies.

Outside the morgue at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, Hamas official Ismail Haniyeh, a close associate of Yassin, had tears in his eyes as he confirmed Yassin's death and pledged revenge.

"This is the moment Sheik Yassin dreamed about," Haniyeh said. "Sheik Yassin lived and died and offered his life to Palestine. Sheik Yassin was a hero and a fighter and the leader of a nation, and (he) is in heaven now."

Yassin founded Hamas at the start of the first Palestinian intefadeh, or uprising, in 1987. It is an offshoot of the Islamic fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood, which is based in Egypt.

The Bush administration, as well as Israel, lists Hamas as a terrorist group.

Yassin was held in Israeli prisons for several years before being released in 1994.

Yassin lived in a modest house in the rundown Sabra neighborhood in Gaza City. Israel, which blamed him for inspiring Hamas bombers and attackers who killed hundreds of Israelis, tried unsuccessfully to kill him in a September missile strike that injured 16 people.

Past Israeli governments were reluctant to target Yassin, fearing a firestorm of revenge attacks.
###

[mburbank]

I'm sure the Palestinians will react calmly to this. There's nothing like assasinating a fanatical religous leader to bring people to their senses. It's like slapping a hysterical person. They thank you for it.

[Brandon]

Yeah, I heard the Israelis just killed him at Isengard, since there just wasn't enough time for the "Scouring of the Shire" scene.

[AChimp]

[Zhukov]

No right minded person would think that killing this man would mean an end to attacks on Israeli civillians.

Either Ariel Sharon and his assassin buddies are insane, they want more attacks to happen, or they don't care about life.

I am inclined to think it is all three.

Israeli helicopters fired three missiles at the wheelchair-bound Yassin

I'm laughing, but I am still sad.

[mburbank]

I don't mean to say that I think this guy was not a terrible and in fact evil person (I think people who justify slaughter in the name of God can be called Evil without exageration.) I do think rocket attacks from the air decends to the level of terrorism in that iit practically guarantees bystanders will be maimed and killed. Palestinian terrorsim aims for anonymous civillians and is reprehensible. Israeli assasination aims at speciffic targets, but basically says it's tough luck for anyone else who happens to be nearby.

I only mean that assasinating him will probably entrench violence and bring more, not less bloodshed. It functions as crude justice at best, simple vendetta, and I doubt strongly that it deters or even interferes with future terrorism.

[CastroMotorOil]

Goddammit i hate Sharon, I'd like to think its both sides fault in the whole Israeli, palestinian thing, and it is, but Sharon just keeps upping the fucking ante, and increasing the level of violence.

The palestinains still share a ton of the blame, but i hope to god they assassinate Sharon, because whats fucking next, suitcase nukes to palestinian neighborhoods?

[Zhukov]

Assassiating Sharon will have the same effect as Assassinating Yassin. You can't fix a problem without recognising the cause, and Sharon ain't it. If it weren't Sharon ordering bulldozers to decimate houses, it would be somebdy else. Just as it will be with Hamas.

State terrorism creates individual terrorism, individual terrorism gives the state an excuse for terrorism.

The palestinains still share a ton of the blame

The Palestinians terrorists share the blame for suicide bombs and Israeli deaths, they do not share the blame for creating the problem in he first place.

Would Israeli attacks and exploitation of Palistine end if the suicide bombng ended? What do people think?

[mburbank]

I think attacks wouldn't because there's no gain if it's not percieved as a security measure.

As for exploitation, it depends on what you mean. I certainly don't think the Israeli right wing would be inclined to start supporting rights for palestinians beyond what they now have.

BUT. think in the absence of violence of violence, unilaterally, on either side, world pressure to move toward a two stte solution would be much harder to ignore. I also believe there are people on both sides for who the bloodshed has gone too far. The absence of violence on either side would give them leverage and room to work.

The Israelis have given one motivated terrorist the ability to thwart the peace process. The Palestinians have given the Israelis a tctical excuse to do so by actively supporting terrorism. The entrenched leadership of both sides have no motivation to seriously move toward peace.

[CastroMotorOil]

I did not mean the palestinians as a whole share the blame for CREATING the problem, i meant that they contribute plenty to the cycle of violence that exists in Isreal.

As for assassinating Sharon, I can't help but think that almsot ANYONE would be a better candidate, somehow I don't remember Rabin causing this much of a problem there, granted things were different then, but then Isreal was moving towards peace, now, whenever a suicide attacks takes place, its like Sharon has to respond 3 fold.

[Brandon]

Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.

Honestly, I think Israel has the right approach to dealing with organizations like Hamas. They recognized a long time ago that you can never appease terrorists, so you have to eliminate them. The Palestinians do not want peace and they will never compromise. Arafat, after all, walked away from offers of land from the Israeli government.

As for the idea that this will create more bloodshed..

Well what more could possibly be done at this point? It's not like things were peachy before they blew Saruman the White to bits.

[mburbank]

No, but unless Israel wants to commit to to full bodied genocide or ethnic cleansing, then something has to be done to attempt to break the cycle of violence. Removing terrorists one by one along with six or seven people in a one block radius each time isn't going to do that, and it creates more terrorists.

While things weren't peachy before this assasination, I can think of an assasination before which things were quite a bit better. Rabin's.

In addition, while I think a violent religous fanatic is a very dangerous thing, I think the image of a paralyzed preacher lieing in a pool of blood amidst the wreckage of his wheelchair outside the Mosque where he just attended services could prove to be more dangerous. Images of violent martyrdom often have lifespans that dwarf the immagination. Ask Jesus.

[Brandon]

And just why is it Israel's obligation to "break the cycle of violence"? Israel and its attackers are not moral equals; Israel is a modern state that recognizes individual liberty, and it has every right to exist and defend itself. It uses military force in self-defense. If more terrorists spring up, Israel should eliminate them too. And if more show up after that? Yep, wipe them out as well.

This is a matter of principle. The burden is on the Palestinians to abandon terrorism, not for the Israelis to appease them.

[mburbank]

"And just why is it Israel's obligation to "break the cycle of violence"?


Because the Palestinians won't. Because Israel is a civilzed nation. Because the Israeli's are the haves and the Palestinians are th have nots. Because Israel was founded to be a light unto the world. Because we believe we are the children of God. Because a people who have endured the suffering we have should do everything in their power to keep from inlficting suffering. Because matters of principle often ned only when no one is left alive. Because a great rabbi once advised that we turn the other cheek, and that loving our friend and neighbor was easy but the lord asked we love our enemy as well. Because God didn't give Jonah an option. Because when self defense is non descrimantory it ceases to be self defense. Because there are worse things even than death and to become that which you despise is one of them.

[Phil the anorak]

Hands up those that think Israel's a safer place tonight?


Stupid decision made by an absolute moral decrepit in my opinion.
Sharon has done more for terrorist recruitment than to make Israel a safer place

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by mburbank

Because the Palestinians won't. Because Israel is a civilzed nation. Because the Israeli's are the haves and the Palestinians are th have nots. Because Israel was founded to be a light unto the world. Because we believe we are the children of God. Because a people who have endured the suffering we have should do everything in their power to keep from inlficting suffering. Because matters of principle often ned only when no one is left alive. Because a great rabbi once advised that we turn the other cheek, and that loving our friend and neighbor was easy but the lord asked we love our enemy as well. Because God didn't give Jonah an option. Because when self defense is non descrimantory it ceases to be self defense. Because there are worse things even than death and to become that which you despise is one of them.

I'm still not seeing how that lays the responsibility for negotiating peace in the laps of the victims rather than the terrorists.

Max, don't you find the idea of appeasing terrorists the slightest bit deplorable?

[Ronnie Raygun]

If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

It goes along with the territory.

Yassin knew that and he chose that way of life, the Jews didn't choose it for him.

[thebiggameover]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

It goes along with the territory.

Yassin knew that and he chose that way of life, the Jews didn't choose it for him.

I'm going to agree with you this time. but this time only...

[Zhukov]

AB, surely you do not think of the Israeli government as victims? The victims of this latest attack, and all others, are the Palestinian and Israeli working people.

Peace lies in the laps of the victims, as the Israeli and Palestinian states are incapable of breaking he cycle because their methods always lead in the opposite direction. Israel will never abandon it's state terrorism, it is against it's own interests.

Sharon wishes to use the reaction of the Palestinian terrorists to step up repression against the Palestinian people as a whole. It also serves nicely to justify the wall they are building which cuts right through whole Palestinian communities.

The Palestinian people will continue to live in a prison house, without jobs, without decent water etc, while the Israeli people have their minds concentrated on the fear of being bombed at any moment.

The Palestinians do not want peace and they will never compromise

Are you talking about Palestinian people, terrorists, or their "leaders"?

They recognized a long time ago that you can never appease terrorists, so you have to eliminate them

Eliminating terrorists creates many more terrorists. If you kill a terrorist, you create a terrorist in his brother, father, son, uncle, cousin, friend etc. This goes for everyone you kill, collateral damage included. Nearly everyone realises this, but it still seems it needs to be repeated. If you "shoot down" those terrorists, you create more. What a stupid way of combating terrorism, of course, "wars on terror" and the like never have the intention of ending terrorism, the people that spout that kind of crap use the reaction for their own gains. Likewise, state terrorism is the best recruiting agent for individual terrorism.

Israel is a modern state that recognizes individual liberty,

Except for Palestinians.

The burden is on the Palestinians to abandon terrorism

You have already said that they are unwilling to compromise, so you must want the killing to go on forever.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

It goes along with the territory.

Yassin knew that and he chose that way of life, the Jews didn't choose it for him.

Funny, a guy from Hamas said something similar today, while a dozen or so volunteered to be suicide bombers in Israel.....

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

AB, surely you do not think of the Israeli government as victims? The victims of this latest attack, and all others, are the Palestinian and Israeli working people.

Obviously civilians suffer the most from this violence, but yes, I believe the Israeli state is, in essence, a victim since it has been under attack since its founding for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Peace lies in the laps of the victims, as the Israeli and Palestinian states are incapable of breaking he cycle because their methods always lead in the opposite direction. Israel will never abandon it's state terrorism, it is against it's own interests.

Oh please, you can hardly call what Israel does "state terrorism."

Sharon wishes to use the reaction of the Palestinian terrorists to step up repression against the Palestinian people as a whole. It also serves nicely to justify the wall they are building which cuts right through whole Palestinian communities.

The Palestinian people will continue to live in a prison house, without jobs, without decent water etc, while the Israeli people have their minds concentrated on the fear of being bombed at any moment.

Well, the best thing the Palestinian leaders can do to get their people out of said "prison house" is to abandon violent action. Israel is under no obligation to listen to the Palestinian "plight" until the Palestinian leaders stop sponsoring terrorism.

Are you talking about Palestinian people, terrorists, or their "leaders"?

Palestinian leaders and terrorists.

Eliminating terrorists creates many more terrorists. If you kill a terrorist, you create a terrorist in his brother, father, son, uncle, cousin, friend etc. This goes for everyone you kill, collateral damage included. Nearly everyone realises this, but it still seems it needs to be repeated. If you "shoot down" those terrorists, you create more. What a stupid way of combating terrorism, of course, "wars on terror" and the like never have the intention of ending terrorism, the people that spout that kind of crap use the reaction for their own gains. Likewise, state terrorism is the best recruiting agent for individual terrorism.

Well, the alternative is appeasement, Zhukov. Do you think governments, in good conscience, should negotiate with terrorists?

Except for Palestinians.

The Palestinians have declared themselves a separate people; the enemy of the Israeli government. Besides, if leaders like Arafat had their way, the Palestinians would be under oppressive, Islamic, theocratic rule, so don't feed me this crap that they're freedom fighters.

You have already said that they are unwilling to compromise, so you must want the killing to go on forever.

No, I don't want the killing to go on forever. However, if a lack of peace is a side effect of Israel's refusal to be bullied by fools and fanatics, then I guess that's the way things are going to have to be.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Funny, a guy from Hamas said something similar today, while a dozen or so volunteered to be suicide bombers in Israel....." - Kevin

Yes. And who would know this more than a suicide bomber?

Nobody.

I guess I'm just a Jew loving son of a bitch.

[derrida]

Capitalism will always have its discontents. It is too radical and powerful a force for it to exist without resistance. I think that in the next few years we will come to accept terrorism as another "inevitability" of modern life as we have crime, poverty, and alienation.

[Zhukov]

EDIT: Totaly agree with derrida, resistance is more extreme in Palestine because the Capitalist government is using more extreme ways of ruling them.

Oh please, you can hardly call what Israel does "state terrorism."

Why not? Surely the bulldozers, assassination and wall building can be considered forms of terrorism? I am sure that if Osama shot rockets at people from a helicopter, it would be terrorism.

Well, the best thing the Palestinian leaders can do to get their people out of said "prison house" is to abandon violent action

Don’t you realise that it is not Palestinian leaders that dish out the violence, it is ordinary Palestinian youth who are disenchanted with Israeli oppression, and rightly so.

"This is a crazy and very dangerous act. It opens the door wide to chaos. Yassin is known for his moderation and he was controlling Hamas and therefore this is a dangerous, cowardly act", says Prime Minister Ahmad Quraya.

Sheik Yassin is dead, but violent action will still continue. PM Quraya says he was a moderate, but bloody attacks still occured. Could this be because Palestinian militants realise that no matter what Arafat or some spiritual leader says abouy ending the fight , Israel will continue to oppress.

Well, the alternative is appeasement, Zhukov. Do you think governments, in good conscience, should negotiate with terrorists?

The only alternative is unity between the workers of Israel and Palestine. The strategy for victory is one that combines a democratic leadership of the resistance, (I am a believer in Intifada I, not Intifada II.) genuine armed struggle, a political outlook that appeals to ordinary Israeli workers to fight against their own capitalists, and an internationalist appeal to the Arab workers and youth to rise and overthrow their own governments. That is the only alternative.

Appeasement is never, ever, going to be put forward by the Israeli govt.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

The only alternative is unity between the workers of Israel and Palestine. The strategy for victory is one that combines a democratic leadership of the resistance, (I am a believer in Intifada I, not Intifada II.) genuine armed struggle, a political outlook that appeals to ordinary Israeli workers to fight against their own capitalists, and an internationalist appeal to the Arab workers and youth to rise and overthrow their own governments. That is the only alternative.

I'm not so sure this is a very relevant argument. Israel is a nation that was essentially founded and built by socialist worker types, the Histadrut (sic). Israel is a VERY liberal and progressive country. They are far ahead of us in many ways.

This issue with the Arabs runs a lot deeper than merely class conflict, impoverished proletariat, etc.

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

I guess I'm just a Jew loving son of a bitch.

You should put a pipe in that strawman's mouth.....