south park 9/11 episode: hit piece or trojan horse?

[Ant10708]

"it's too damn risky to attempt to do a show in order to expose the bush administration's involvement in the 9/11 conspiracy." - geggy


But it isn't risking at all having a website dedicated to proving the Bush administration was behidn the 9/11 attacks? Don't you see that the 9/11truth people would be killed if the government really wanted to keep people in the dark about all this. The joke in the show was that the govt doesn't care and is happy to let 'retarded' people like you continue to be afriad of them.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Geggy, I think this episode of South Park was attempting to teach you a valuable lesson, and you've completely missed it.

I think you could actually get something valuable out of this whole Foley scandal, too. Think about it-- the deviant behavior of one lowly congressman was exposed to the world to see. Entire conversations, e-mails, all exposed and presented to the American people. Competing interests within his own party, and outside it, knew all along and are now tossing blame back and forth. The media got their hands on this, and ripped into it like red meat.

So....tell me how you think this government, full of competing interests and sloppy goofballs, could even POSSIBLY pull of the scheme you've created in your mind. How could it be done? Why would every SINGLE major news outlet ignore it, or dismiss the conspiracy theorists? There would be too much prestige and profit to be the outlet that exposes the real scandal of the century. Why wouldn't the government silence you if you're so right? If they killed over 3,000 people without blinking, why would they refrain from killing you too? It couldn't be the exposure, b/c you think the media is in on it anyway, right? Why not do away with the 1/4 of the population that's retarded?

[Rez]

not to side in particular here, but the whole "killing you because you know too much" trap really blows because, in going along with their scenario, you play within the rules of a paranoiac, and they can just as easily say they could be killed for knowing too much or, if they're not killed, that the government allows them to continue just so that they get laughed out of town and/or annoy everyone so that they stop listening because if they disappeared it would look infinitely more suspicious.

[Archduke Tips]

All it takes to outsmart somebody is to be smarter than them.

So do you think you are smarter than the government? Do you think you are smarter than all the people working to bring you news?

[Rez]

they're working under the assumption that the government and media are so full of lies that their bloated organizations can't possibly be careful enough to hide all of them, with the hope that, by sheer pluck and industriousness, any 'fugitive' lie exposed by "the people after the truth" would expose more lies which could snowball and somehow take down a whole government.

it's never really been done to the revolutionary extent they keep talking about, but that the working model so far.

[Archduke Tips]

If the media/government pulls the wool over something you aren't even looking at, then they really aren't pulling the wool over your eyes at all, are they?

[Rez]

you may otherwise have seen it? :/

the world would be a crystal clear picture of information free of chaos and confusion if only manaical hand rubbers wouldnt put entire armies in charge of speading misinformation and lies, safe in their corporate skyscrapers from the VERY REAL global warming and water poisoning and DNA changing and baby stealing and 'peace'-activist murdering EVERY DAY.

you just have to uncover the lies

though blogs on the internet

and newspapers called "the homeless guardian"

[Archduke Tips]

You don't have to purposefully lie to create a lie.

What makes a piece of information true to you?

[Rez]

Originally Posted by RussoNWM

You don't have to purposefully lie to create a lie.

What makes a piece of information true to you?

thats a question that opening something i'm not inclined to get into.

suffice to say a combination of how well said event follows a continuum of past events, whether via a historical or a tangible paper (or electronic) trail, the effect of the event on the people that were there, and how it affects future events from then on.

there's an odd combination of hard fact and "the longer we constantly live with it, the truth becomes semantic", lodged in there
but truth or not, it's about whats happening. shit comes to light and life adjusts or not accordingly.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by the_dudefather

the irish potato famine was all a elaborate coverup so the british could secretly kill off much of the population and enforce the grip they had on much of the country...

but i shall let the evidence speak for itself

CONSIDER THIS:

-POTATOES are NOT native to Ireland, so how may i ask, can the lack of them starve people?

-NO PHOTOGRAPHS exist showing people 'starving' during the famine, COINCEDENCE? I THINK NOT

-the so called 'fungas' that blighted the potatoes develop when the temperature is above 10°C, HOWEVER, the average temperature in Ireland is "about 9 °C", this is also, before global warming, so IT WAS WELL NIPPY (source: google). I BELIEVE THE SUPPOSED BLIGHT IS A HOAX!

-if people could afford to 'immegrate' as the 'official' 'record' 'shows', why couldnt they have just gone to a reasonably priced restaurant?

DEMAND THE TRUTH!! DONT BE A SHEEP!! 1845 NEVA FORGET

That was funny as fuck. Did you write that yourself or did you read it somewhere.

Seriously, I'd like to know.

[theapportioner]

Geggy may be a character, but after meeting people just like him, I'm more inclined to call him clinically insane.

[Geggy]

Are you accusing me of being clinically insane or does the notion that our government having a hand in the attacks sound insane to you? There's the difference in betwen the two. What gives you a right to accuse me of being insane if you've never taken the "conspiracy theorists" seriously or have done research on your own anyway?

Ant...I don't watch south park as often as most people do but stan and kyle does remind me of the 16% of the "retards" who thinks the government is telling the truth about 9/11 because they're too lazy to do research on their own. I just assume trey and matt are pushing the same tactics used by the journalists during the time of the soviet union. They would write a hit piece towards "conspiracy theorists" while slipping in several hard hitting facts into the article to warn the public about the rising powers of stalin and the kgb.

Preechr...I'm seeing what you're trying to say here. I'd love it if the bum next door steal my shit so I can claim insurance money to buy a bigger tv, more advance bicycles, etc. And report the police to have him prosecuted in hopes of him losing his home. It would give a chance of having a nicer and friendlier neighbor moving in and they would remodel their already dilapidiated home to bring up the value of my home. By the way where did you get the idea that I'm a bum who is living in my parents' basement or an alcoholic who lives alone with no job? That's all purely spectulative on your part. I live a pretty moderate, conservative life. I've got a home in which I pay monthly mortgage bill, I've got a kid to feed and care for and I have a 9 to 5 job with decent pay. So what if I've become intrigued by the issues of 9/11, I just fail to see anything's wrong with that.

I admit that I am a bit obsessed, but then I'm sorry. I'm not all that hot for the osama and the 19 hijackers story. There's just no going back for me, I've already seen too much. After performing research of how intelligence and security agencies operate, I find the official story to be total horse shit. The absurdity of the 19 hijackers having outwitted the FBI, the CIA and the military, the world's only superpower, especially after the fact these 19 hijackers were incredibly sloppy and have made numerous mistakes in which you wouldn't see professional terrorists would normally make is pure fantasy and that's my opinion. This may shock you, but I have some faith in the US govt agencies and security departments and I do believe that if they had done their job properly and followed their normal procedures, especially with the "pre-9/11 mind set", september 11 would have been easily prevented. But something got into their way, someone had obstructed and thwarted investigations into the suspicious activities of the 19 hijackers inside the US, simply because someone wanted the attack to happen in order to further their economic and global interests.

Like all of us when we were glued to tv in the aftermath of 9/11 searching for answers what had happened, I'm still in that frame of mind where I'm actually still searching for answers, only because I reject the offical story that you have accepted.

Kevin...There were few things I learned from the Foley scandal...if theyre capable of covering up the most trivial bullshit like the perverted IMs by Foley, then they're most definitely capable of covering up even larger issues. If you think they're that sloppy in covering up, then why can't you see the obviousness of the US govt's complicity on 9/11?

[Geggy]

Sorry I got cut off here but I'm def interested in discussing media's tactics. Don't have the time now though but read about operation mockingbird in which the cia controls the information flow through the media and decide what's being reported and what's not. I do still believe they're using journalists as assets and giving them assignments with pay to this day.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by Geggy

Are you accusing me of being clinically insane or does the notion that our government having a hand in the attacks sound insane to you? There's the difference in betwen the two. What gives you a right to accuse me of being insane if you've never taken the "conspiracy theorists" seriously or have done research on your own anyway?

I'm calling you an asshole. How about that?

And I've done atleast as much research as you because I read the shit you post and link to. Am I qualified to call you an asshole?

Ant...I don't watch south park as often as most people do but stan and kyle does remind me of the 16% of the "retards" who thinks the government is telling the truth about 9/11 because they're too lazy to do research on their own.

Holy cow. The vast majority of Americans think politicians lie. Wooooo. Boy, you could have knocked me over with a feather after that revelation.

I just assume trey and matt are pushing the same tactics used by the journalists during the time of the soviet union. They would write a hit piece towards "conspiracy theorists" while slipping in several hard hitting facts into the article to warn the public about the rising powers of stalin and the kgb.

Except that it is obviously not what they are doing. South Park is rarely that subtle.

By the way where did you get the idea that I'm a bum who is living in my parents' basement or an alcoholic who lives alone with no job? That's all purely spectulative on your part.

So, we are now agreeing that speculation has no real place in this argument? That for someone to say something, they had damn well better have solid proof? Good.

I live a pretty moderate, conservative life.

So did the Unibomber at one point.

I've got a kid to feed and care for

That may well be one of the saddest things I've ever read. Please tell me he is not learning is reasoning skills from you.

I admit that I am a bit obsessed,

Obsessed isn't the word. Delusional is a better way to sum it up.

but then I'm sorry.

Ya, you are pretty sorry.

I'm not all that hot for the osama and the 19 hijackers story.

I'm just curious, because you've never really answered this question.

What story do you buy?

There's just no going back for me,

And that is part of the problem. You've already decided and there is no reasoning with you. People read your shit (or the shit others write that you post), disect it, point out the flaws, and you just act like a condescending prick who is so much smarter than all these "intellectually dishonest" morons.

I've already seen too much.

Unfortunatly, its all an illusion.

After performing research of how intelligence and security agencies operate,

Cut and pasting the work of others without actually reading it or following the citations is not research. Have you actually gone through trade publications of actual engineers, law enbforcement officials and people who in this reality qualify as experts? No. You copy the work of philosphy professors and ham radio operators and accept that as the truth (and no I won't capitolize it).

I find the official story to be total horse shit.

Again, what story do you buy?

The absurdity of the 19 hijackers having outwitted the FBI, the CIA and the military,

No, they may have slipped past a few law enforcement officials and the airport security screeners.

the world's only superpower,

Whose defenses are pointed outwards

especially after the fact these 19 hijackers were incredibly sloppy and have made numerous mistakes

such as?

in which you wouldn't see professional terrorists

"professional terroists"?

would normally make is pure fantasy

And just how long have you studied law enforcement and counter terrorism?

Do you know who Carlos Illyich Ramirez is?

and that's my opinion.

You're right. Its your opinion. thats all it will ever be, because it has no basis in reality.

This may shock you, but I have some faith in the US govt agencies and security departments

As do I. but, I know that they are still human and no system that utilizes human beings is fool proof.

and I do believe that if they had done their job properly and followed their normal procedures,

You don't even know the proper procedures.

especially with the "pre-9/11 mind set",

The mindset that it couldn't happen here?

september 11 would have been easily prevented.

I'm sure it could have too. But what steps would have been neccassery to do so and would you be willing to see them implemented?

But something got into their way, someone had obstructed and thwarted investigations into the suspicious activities of the 19 hijackers inside the US, simply because someone wanted the attack to happen in order to further their economic and global interests.

Proof?

Like all of us when we were glued to tv in the aftermath of 9/11 searching for answers what had happened, I'm still in that frame of mind where I'm actually still searching for answers, only because I reject the offical story that you have accepted.

You mean "the official story that best fits the evidence presented".

Kevin...There were few things I learned from the Foley scandal...if theyre capable of covering up the most trivial bullshit like the perverted IMs by Foley, then they're most definitely capable of covering up even larger issues.

1) Ummmmm........they didn't really cover it up. They tried, but obviously, it didn't work out too well.

2) That has got to be some of the worst reasoning I've ever been subjected to. And thats saying something considering how much of your bullshit I've read.

You don't think the sheer scale of an operation like faking 9/11 would make the two instances a little different? You don't think that maybe it would require a lot more people involved?

If you think they're that sloppy in covering up, then why can't you see the obviousness of the US govt's complicity on 9/11?

The Foley scandal requires cooperation from what? Maybe 2 dozen people? A few other congressmen and their top aides? Most people knew he was gay, but only the inner circle had to know he was jonesing for underage boys.

And even that got blown up.

[Juttin]

Originally Posted by Geggy

I just assume trey and matt are pushing the same tactics used by the journalists during the time of the soviet union. They would write a hit piece towards "conspiracy theorists" while slipping in several hard hitting facts into the article to warn the public about the rising powers of stalin and the kgb.

Bah, Stalin wasn't a threat.
COLONEL VOLGIN....now, he's another story
He had a GIANT TANK that could FIRE A NUKE FROM ANY TERRAIN

[Juttin]

This, of course, happening decades after the Holocaust that never happened, but still before the Fake Moon-Landing

[Dr. Boogie]

Are you a writer on X-Play?

[Preechr]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

That may well be one of the saddest things I've ever read. Please tell me he is not learning is reasoning skills from you.

Maybe it's just me being a Southerner, but these sorts of digs really get under my skin no matter who makes them or whom they're intended for...

Anyhoo, Geggy... Not to encourage you, but I think pretty much everybody in the world realizes that 9/12 was a day focused mostly on ass-covering by anyone even remotely involved with homeland security efforts. While this means there are certainly facts many many people will probably take to their graves about the attack, it doesn't mean there was some sort of great conspiracy by the government. Personally, I have good reason to believe there were explosives hidden in the towers before the attacks, and while I won't go into details about why I think that, I don't see why it's so easy for you to jump from A to Z and conclude the government is responsible because some of the information related to the attack has not been declassified... and may well never be.

The fact is, in most cases there is just no way of knowing for certain everything about anything. You are not a stupid person. That puts you ahead of more than half the human herd. I don't resent you for your views, no matter how crazy I think they may be, because I don't think you have an agenda behind believing as you do. I think you honestly believe this crap, even though most adults have accumulated enough human experiences to easily dismiss your allcaps conspiracy sites before they get three sentences in. THAT's why I find it hard to believe you are more than 18 years old.

This has to be the first thing you've ever realy involved yourself in intellectually. Maybe you really don't live in your parents' basement, but you definitely need to get out and develop a deeper understanding of the world before you go locking in on conspiracy obsessions. Crazy's just around the corner for you buddy. I can guarantee you a lifetime spent chasing this ghost will be a lifetime wasted on nothing but frustration. If I can reliably judge your IRL relationships by how you act here, I don't hold much hope for you on a personal level as long as you are on this quest. How bored your aquaintances and co-workers must be with your obssession... Do you judge your friendships solely on willingness to accept your theories on just this one thing?

[Geggy]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

I'm calling you an asshole. How about that?

And I've done atleast as much research as you because I read the shit you post and link to. Am I qualified to call you an asshole?

Tens of qualified government insiders are questioning 9/11...are they assholes, too? What about hundreds of those involved the family commitee for 9/11 truth, who spend more time researching and asking questions what had happened to their loved ones to this day than anyone ever have...Are they all assholes, as well? Theyve never received media attention, not even from oprah, instead the controlled media cherry pick theorists who advocate the most outlandish theories and give them public exposures to play it safe.

Holy cow. The vast majority of Americans think politicians lie. Wooooo. Boy, you could have knocked me over with a feather after that revelation.

If you want to continue to cling on the "intelligence failure" theory, that's fine with me. I'm willing to look past the "intelligence failure" smokescreen that's blowing out of their asses and see through their lies fabricated for the reason to create an innocuous image of themselves.

That may well be one of the saddest things I've ever read. Please tell me he is not learning is reasoning skills from you.

She's a she and someday when she start to understand, I will tell her that politicians lie and always question them. And to never fall for the right-left paradigm bullshit. That's it. No offense to anyone in here.

I'm just curious, because you've never really answered this question.

What story do you buy?

My primrary point is that I don't buy the osama and the 19 hijackers story. That's the point of renewing an investigation into 9/11 to find out what's the deal here. But I know that will never happen. I'm only trying to open your eyes to the kind of people that we are dealing with. The 300 plus paged patriot act was already introduced to the congress in a week after the attack took place. People were fear-strucked at the time, and were willing to give up their civil liberties and freedom to have the patriot act and the homeland terror chart implemented. There were other patterns that bugged me out, as wll.

And that is part of the problem. You've already decided and there is no reasoning with you. People read your shit (or the shit others write that you post), disect it, point out the flaws, and you just act like a condescending prick who is so much smarter than all these "intellectually dishonest" morons.

This part had me laughing the hardest.

Unfortunatly, its all an illusion.

I truly wish you were right about that.

Cut and pasting the work of others without actually reading it or following the citations is not research. Have you actually gone through trade publications of actual engineers, law enbforcement officials and people who in this reality qualify as experts? No. You copy the work of philosphy professors and ham radio operators and accept that as the truth (and no I won't capitolize it).

Not just copy and paste articles, videos too.

Again, what story do you buy?

It's not the matter of what story I buy into. It's what I believe, that the us govt had a hand in the conspiracy.

No, they may have slipped past a few law enforcement officials and the airport security screeners.

Atta had a criminal record while residing in germany and it was already known to the FBI he was connected to al-qaeda after discovering he had purchased bomb compounds and materials. He was under survillience by the CIA until he entered the US. He slipped through the INS when entering the US. An army intelligence unit uncovered al-qaeda spot in brooklyn where Atta was staying. Get that? According to the official story, the 72 virgins must have been watching over his shoulders, waiting for a good fuck.

Whose defenses are pointed outwards

The CIA and the FBI knew the hijackers were taking up pilot training inside the US. It was discovered that al-qaeda members were learning to fly planes in aviation schools in phoenix, arizona and florida, yet the request for further investigation had been thwarted and no actions were taken. Even the Israeli spies handed in list of names of the 4 hijackers to the pentagon. All of this was before 9/11.

such as?

Such as Atta taking a flight from portland, maine to boston on the morning of 9/11, nearly missing the flight taking off from boston. Buying flight tickets scheduled for the day online using credit cards under their real names. These little things.

And just how long have you studied law enforcement and counter terrorism?

Do you know who Carlos Illyich Ramirez is?

Do you know who whitey bulger is? He had a brother who was the president of the massachusetts state senate.

As do I. but, I know that they are still human and no system that utilizes human beings is fool proof.

If you do a research on why they failed, you will see that it was all planned.

You don't even know the proper procedures.

How would you know?

The mindset that it couldn't happen here?

The Bojinka plot to hijack planes and crash into US buildings that was foiled in 1995 was already known to CIA and FBI. Doesn't that tell you anything?

I'm sure it could have too. But what steps would have been neccassery to do so and would you be willing to see them implemented?

If they were given warrants, in which they have never received.

You mean "the official story that best fits the evidence presented".

Recently, Thomas kean called the 9/11 report a first draft.

1) Ummmmm........they didn't really cover it up. They tried, but obviously, it didn't work out too well.

It was covered up for 10 years. Why all the media attention and sensational hype about it now...that if it hasn't blown over yet? I'm asking because I haven't been paying attention. I'm more concerned about the other things that's going on than some pervert asking to play hide the sausage with underage boys. That kind of issue pales in comparisions to other current events. One of the reasons for me to question why the hell did it receive so much spotlight?

You don't think the sheer scale of an operation like faking 9/11 would make the two instances a little different? You don't think that maybe it would require a lot more people involved?

After looking at how it was possible for the US govt to pull it off, it could not have been more than 10 people involved, excluding the soveriegnity govt.

The Foley scandal requires cooperation from what? Maybe 2 dozen people? A few other congressmen and their top aides? Most people knew he was gay, but only the inner circle had to know he was jonesing for underage boys.

And even that got blown up.

Remember few days before the story got blown up, the heat turned up for rice about the july 10 warning from tenet and it was getting media attention yet it was esclipsed by the sex scandal when the media chased after that story because it was more exciting? Now I wonder if that was planned.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Geggy

Not just copy and paste articles, videos too.

[Geggy]

Originally Posted by Preechr

Maybe it's just me being a Southerner, but these sorts of digs really get under my skin no matter who makes them or whom they're intended for...

Anyhoo, Geggy... Not to encourage you, but I think pretty much everybody in the world realizes that 9/12 was a day focused mostly on ass-covering by anyone even remotely involved with homeland security efforts. While this means there are certainly facts many many people will probably take to their graves about the attack, it doesn't mean there was some sort of great conspiracy by the government. Personally, I have good reason to believe there were explosives hidden in the towers before the attacks, and while I won't go into details about why I think that, I don't see why it's so easy for you to jump from A to Z and conclude the government is responsible because some of the information related to the attack has not been declassified... and may well never be.

The fact is, in most cases there is just no way of knowing for certain everything about anything. You are not a stupid person. That puts you ahead of more than half the human herd. I don't resent you for your views, no matter how crazy I think they may be, because I don't think you have an agenda behind believing as you do. I think you honestly believe this crap, even though most adults have accumulated enough human experiences to easily dismiss your allcaps conspiracy sites before they get three sentences in. THAT's why I find it hard to believe you are more than 18 years old.

This has to be the first thing you've ever realy involved yourself in intellectually. Maybe you really don't live in your parents' basement, but you definitely need to get out and develop a deeper understanding of the world before you go locking in on conspiracy obsessions. Crazy's just around the corner for you buddy. I can guarantee you a lifetime spent chasing this ghost will be a lifetime wasted on nothing but frustration. If I can reliably judge your IRL relationships by how you act here, I don't hold much hope for you on a personal level as long as you are on this quest. How bored your aquaintances and co-workers must be with your obssession... Do you judge your friendships solely on willingness to accept your theories on just this one thing?

I rarely talk about my obsession outside the internet because it's not worth losing my job, my friends, my home over. Everybody knows and respect my views on 9/11, there's no point in ranting on about it to them. Internet is a better source for reaching out the mass population. I do it during my leisure time rather than watching tv or if I don't have anything left to read on the internet. Also it's kind of exciting watching the world and the media evolve around about what I do. I'll stop doing it when it's over. I think bill hicks said it best

"I love talking about the Kennedy assasination. The reason I do is because I'm fascinated by it. I'm fascinated that our government could lie to us so blatantly, so obviously for so long, and we do absolutely nothing about it. I think that's interesting in what is ostensibly a democracy. Sarcasm, come on in. People say "Bill, quit talking about Kennedy man. It was a long time ago, just let it go, alright? It's a long time ago, just forget it." I'm like, alright, then don't bring up Jesus to me. As long as we're talking shelf life here..."

[Preechr]

So, you are saying you can let this go someday?

[Abcdxxxx]

"Also it's kind of exciting watching the world and the media evolve around about what I do. "

Funniest thing I've read here, maybe ever.

Geggy, does it not worry you that this "obsession" has led you to parrot some incredibly backwards statements that stem from hatred and bias rather then merely some "search for the truth" ? When people assume you're a naive child on the internet, they're really giving you the benefit of the doubt, flattering you.

[Rez]

Originally Posted by Geggy

I rarely talk about my obsession outside the internet because it's not worth losing my job, my friends, my home over. Everybody knows and respect my views on 9/11, there's no point in ranting on about it to them. Internet is a better source for reaching out the mass population. I do it during my leisure time rather than watching tv or if I don't have anything left to read on the internet. Also it's kind of exciting watching the world and the media evolve around about what I do. I'll stop doing it when it's over. I think bill hicks said it best

"I love talking about the Kennedy assasination. The reason I do is because I'm fascinated by it. I'm fascinated that our government could lie to us so blatantly, so obviously for so long, and we do absolutely nothing about it. I think that's interesting in what is ostensibly a democracy. Sarcasm, come on in. People say "Bill, quit talking about Kennedy man. It was a long time ago, just let it go, alright? It's a long time ago, just forget it." I'm like, alright, then don't bring up Jesus to me. As long as we're talking shelf life here..."

hey, you're that guy whose uncle came out of the closet and ever since then you wondered if he ever jerked off over you as a young'un when he helped you brush your teeth

man, your reasoning is awful

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Rez, you are utterly useless.