Thanks to the war....

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

The Giants gave up a 1, a 3, and a 5 for a guy who will at the very LEAST be just as good as Collins, but younger, and well tested in tense games.

They gave up 2 #1 picks (Phillip Rivers). Rivers and the #3 this year? Fine. But next year's #1? And how can you say he's better than a 300 ypg quarterback when he was yet to throw a pass in the NFL?

The best case scenario, he's the next Montana.

Easy, cheif. Joe Montana actually had a champioship at this point in his career. I think its pretty unfair to compare a rookie who has just been drafted to the greatest QB of all time.

A great deal, when you consider that the Bills essentially did the same thing for a project who will sit behind Bledsoe.

Thats lousy deal, too.

They had to cut Collins, they didn't want to, but they had to.

True, he really should have accepted restructuring the deal.

I would've loved to have both of them compete for the job in camp, cuz the free market makes all boats rise and shit, but oh well.

It would have been better to have Manning learn from Collins for a season or two.

The Giants have a good team. They were at the top of most peoples Super Bowl lists last year, but everything that could go wrong for them did. I'm counting on a healthy Shockey, a Tike Barber who doesn't fumble every other down, an excellent quarterback, a healthy Ike Hilliard, a special teams unit worth the price tag, etc. etc.

The main problem was an o-line that never got to work as one cohesive unit due to injuries. If that doesn't improve, the Giants just mortgaged their next 3 or 4 years.

And when was the last time Hilliard was healthy?

I get this feeling that Manning will be the next Tyrone Wheatly.

[mburbank]

Thanks to the war, eleven more American kids won't be coming home.

Thanks to the war a British soldier got a chance to urinate on another human being.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

They gave up 2 #1 picks (Phillip Rivers). Rivers and the #3 this year? Fine. But next year's #1? And how can you say he's better than a 300 ypg quarterback when he was yet to throw a pass in the NFL?

That would make sense, ie. the two number ones thing, if the Giants hadn't gotten the #1 pick, Eli Manning. Yes, they lost a #1, but you''re certainly not in the red when you flip Rivers for Manning.

They can afford to give up a #1 just like teams such as the Cincinnati Bengals probably should've given up #1 picks for substance years ago. A guy in Newsday put it appropriately last week: in the NFL, you don't "rebuild,"you instead "reload."

Keep in mind that the Giants were among most lists to make the Super Bowl last season. MANY things went wrong, but they still have the tools there to be a competitive playoff team. The Giants gave up the #1 out of reasonable optimism. They're not counting on being where they were in this year's draft.

Easy, cheif. Joe Montana actually had a champioship at this point in his career. I think its pretty unfair to compare a rookie who has just been drafted to the greatest QB of all time.

I said upside, right? Eli Manning, at this very moment, has greater potential than Kerry Collins. He will at LEAST be as good as Kerry Collins, providing he doesn't get hurt. If you cut all of the QB's in the NFL in half, Collins is definitely on the better half. Manning will probably be there too, but has the poptential to be in the top 10 or 5. That's worth risking a #1 on.

The main problem was an o-line that never got to work as one cohesive unit due to injuries. If that doesn't improve, the Giants just mortgaged their next 3 or 4 years.

Not really. You said it yourself, they never got to become cohesive due to injury. Every team has to enter a season with optimism, hoping and asuming that lighting doesn't strike twice, right?

And when was the last time Hilliard was healthy?

Last season, and he had a pretty good year, at that.

I get this feeling that Manning will be the next Tyrone Wheatly.

NO way. Wheatly was waaay overrated, particularly by the Giants. They took him instead of Saalam (which in retrospect, may have been the wiser move). Manning is going to be a good QB, the only question is HOW good, IMO.

[VinceZeb]

Kevin needs to shut the fuck up about football. It's apparent that he doesn't know jack shit about it. Christ, can't you find SOMETHING you are worthwhile at?

[AChimp]

YEAH.

Rush knows football, and Rush disagrees with Kevin.

[El Blanco]

That would make sense, ie. the two number ones thing, if the Giants hadn't gotten the #1 pick, Eli Manning. Yes, they lost a #1, but you''re certainly not in the red when you flip Rivers for Manning.

Rivers plus this year's #3 plus next year's #1 and #5. If the Giants have another crappy year, this will really bite them in the ass.

Keep in mind that the Giants were among most lists to make the Super Bowl last season. MANY things went wrong, but they still have the tools there to be a competitive playoff team. The Giants gave up the #1 out of reasonable optimism. They're not counting on being where they were in this year's draft.

Have you seen what the rest of the NFC East did? Philly pickeds up TO and Jevone Kearse. Washington grabbing Clinton Portis. Dallas getting Keyshawn Johnson and Drew Henson.

I really don't see what a rookie QB is going to do against the rest of that.

I said upside, right?

In that case, the upside to every rookie QB is he can be the next Montana.

Eli Manning, at this very moment, has greater potential than Kerry Collins.

Blech. "Potential" is French for "ain't done jack shit". Ryan Leaf had potential. So did Dave Brown, Tyrone Wheatly, Ron Dayne, Jeff George, KiJanna Carter....do I need to go on?

Wheatly was waaay overrated, particularly by the Giants.

We didn't know that until he flopped.

Manning is going to be a good QB, the only question is HOW good, IMO.

Yes, he will be a good QB, but it won't do him much good underneath a pile of defensive tackles. You think he'll inherit that stunning Manning family playoff record?

[Big Papa Goat]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Kevin needs to shut the fuck up about football. It's apparent that he doesn't know jack shit about it. Christ, can't you find SOMETHING you are worthwhile at?

DAMN LIBERAL GAYS RUINING FOOTBALL

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Kevin needs to shut the fuck up about football. It's apparent that he doesn't know jack shit about it. Christ, can't you find SOMETHING you are worthwhile at?

So can you actually dispute what I said, or no? No? Yeah, that's what I thought. Like all things, you can add pro football to the list of things I have your number in. Bitch.

I'll get back to ya, Blanco.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Fuck it, real quick......

Originally Posted by El Blanco

Rivers plus this year's #3 plus next year's #1 and #5. If the Giants have another crappy year, this will really bite them in the ass.

It just might. However, can you agree that swapping the #3 for the top pick in the draft cancels each other out at least? Even if Rivers turns out better, you can't fault the Giants for the choice. Most people see them as being relatively equal on the fundamentals, with Manning getting a little bit more in the "extra something special" category. Now that may all be hype, but I feel it's a risk worth taking.

Have you seen what the rest of the NFC East did? Philly pickeds up TO and Jevone Kearse. Washington grabbing Clinton Portis. Dallas getting Keyshawn Johnson and Drew Henson.

Which only makes a stronger case for the Giants taking a gamble on Eli Manning. One thing is certain, they wouldn't have been able to compete in the East with Collins as QB. There is no upside to having him as your arm (btw: Drew Henson? Is that really a strike against Manning? Come on.)

I really don't see what a rookie QB is going to do against the rest of that.

Read above.

In that case, the upside to every rookie QB is he can be the next Montana.

No, they can't. Manning was the #1 pick in the draft, and probably the most coveted player to come out. There's a BIG difference between Eli Manning and J.P. Lawson.

Blech. "Potential" is French for "ain't done jack shit". Ryan Leaf had potential. So did Dave Brown, Tyrone Wheatly, Ron Dayne, Jeff George, KiJanna Carter....do I need to go on?

Come on. Dave Brown? Wheatly wasn't even the most praised back in that draft, let alone achieving such status in the NFL. To my recollection, he was a low 1st round pick. You make it sound as if the Giants have never made a solid draft choice, neglecting of course the fact that they drafted arguably the best TE in football just two years ago.

We didn't know that until he flopped.

Once again, read above. I remember watching that draft. They passed up on the Heisman winner for Wheatly. Certainly they didn't think he'd be a total flop, but it was still a risk. Comparing him to Manning however is like apples and oranges. With your logic, every draft choice made by every team ever could be a flop. Well, no duh. You still need to take those risks. One thing, again, is certain-- the Giants with Kerry Collins weren't getting any better.

EDIT: One other quick point. It should be noted that while Wheatley certainly isn't O.J., he is still the rushing leader for the Raiders. He's still a pretty viable (although not great) runningback in the NFL. Not quite a flop.

Yes, he will be a good QB, but it won't do him much good underneath a pile of defensive tackles. You think he'll inherit that stunning Manning family playoff record?

We shall see. I take it I'm speaking with a Jets fan?

[El Blanco]

No, I'm a huge Giants fan. I just think they did something that can be potentially great (draft Manning) and might have turned it into a giant cluster fuck.

I liked the trade to get Manning, I really did. I would have done it except for next year's #1. And, I think it would have done him well to learn from the bench for a year or two.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Fair enough.

[mesobe]

football fucking sucks. its the biggest gay sport known to man. a bunch of over-sized monkeys in grape-smugglers piling together like a huge Bukkake orgy.

[Royal Tenenbaum]

After reading that list, and if at least half of those things on the list are true, then I must say, the US is one great socialist country. They are giving tons of shit away to people, it's great.

[mesobe]

gotta love propaganda

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by mesobe

football fucking sucks. its the biggest gay sport known to man. a bunch of over-sized monkeys in grape-smugglers piling together like a huge Bukkake orgy.

1) You are a fucking idiot who has yet to add anything to a conversation

2) You just described rugby or pretty much any contact sport played on an open field. If that is really what you see, it says a whole lot about where your mind is.

[ScruU2wice]

I really think this is one of the greatest threads on the boards as of now...

[mesobe]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

1) You are a fucking idiot who has yet to add anything to a conversation

2) You just described rugby or pretty much any contact sport played on an open field. If that is really what you see, it says a whole lot about where your mind is.

Rugby eh? yeah... Im not too sure you know what rugby is. and what other "contact sport played on an open field" is like american football?

I may not know where my own mind is half the time but Im quite positive that your own mind is snug up your ass.