The death of the heterosexual man- replaced by pseudo-fags??

[mburbank]

Can I get a lean Pastrami on a gender roll to go?

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

Eastern wisdom has long taught that strength of body affects stregth of spirit, but this does not just apply to men.

If one already has strength of spirit, is this spirit diminished by NOT having strength of body? I work in a "blue collar" job and I'll take intelligence, integrity, and hard work as far as who I choose to be my co-worker over Mr. Muscles. I mean, in truth, being physically stronger is an enhancement but not a necessity. Being strong and dumb can get me killed. True dat! :/

P.S. Not to mention the fact that I have had my ass verily kicked in billiards by some women ... and I win a lot more than I lose.

[Protoclown]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Uhhhh... Proto, gender rolls exists because there are certain acts that are more suited to men or women. It isn't a "silly notion", it's defined by nature.

Like the Chimp already said, name some. Please Vince, show us all just how far the extent of your sexism goes. Tell us that men should be soldiers and women should be nurses or stay at home wives. I dare you, you fat fucking fake-tit grabbing pussy.

There is nothing I can do that any woman can't, except for make someone pregnant.

As we evolve as a species, these "gender rolls" (leave it to you of all people to misspell it so it refers to food) you're so fond of are becoming needless. As far as these roles go, we're progressing towards androgyny.

Tell me, Vince...what is wrong with a world where I as a man can freely talk about my feelings and a woman can be tough enough to kick my (or your) ass?

[VinceZeb]

Originally Posted by Protoclown

Like the Chimp already said, name some. Please Vince, show us all just how far the extent of your sexism goes. Tell us that men should be soldiers and women should be nurses or stay at home wives. I dare you, you fat fucking fake-tit grabbing pussy.

There is nothing I can do that any woman can't, except for make someone pregnant.

As we evolve as a species, these "gender rolls" (leave it to you of all people to misspell it so it refers to food) you're so fond of are becoming needless. As far as these roles go, we're progressing towards androgyny.

Tell me, Vince...what is wrong with a world where I as a man can freely talk about my feelings and a woman can be tough enough to kick my (or your) ass?

There ARE things that males and females can do that are better than one another. Nature has set certain tasks thare are better suited for males and females.

Take child-rearing for instance. Women are better at it than a man could ever be. Women draw more on their emotions, so they are a lot more equipped to take care of and nuture a child when it comes to it's emotional needs. A guy, through the beginning of time, has always been the person who goes out, gets the food, brings it home, and feeds and clothes his family. That is how the male has always contributed to his family. Now, can males show emotion? Yes, they do when apporipate. A guy who sits around and acts all emotional all the time is seen as being weird and it goes against the natural order. If a woman wants to be a fighter, let her, and if she can kick my ass, so be it. But put up the average women fighter against the average man and the woman will leave on a stretcher.

Why do you think that men are better suited for jobs such as being a firefighter? They LOWER the standards of a firefighter so women can be included. In your worldview, this is the "evolvement of our species" and it's all nice and fuzzy and its a nice big piece of goodness and we can all become the same and be a bunch of fun-happy people that see no one as being different, because that isn't evolved or enlightened.

Bullshit. If my ass is trapped in a burning building, I don't want the woman that could not meet the regular standards so they lowered them to rescue me. I want the most Paul Bunyan-like mother fucker that can lift cars with his pinky to pick my ass up and deliver me to safety. If a woman could do that, then she should be on the force. But lets get facts straight: It doesnt take a front-page cover article from TIME magazine to tell us that men and women are and will always be different.

[Bennett]

Are you excited about the new horseless carriage, Vince?

[mburbank]

Vince is going to need some mail order bride catalogs if he ever wants to get married.

[Protoclown]

So much stupidity...where to even begin?

I guess I must be against the "natural order" then Vince, because I've always been pretty expressive about my feelings, nor have I felt any shame at all for the mere sake of having them. I consider having feelings a simple part of being human, not an aspect of what you would no doubt call my "pussyfication". I am not a robot, Vince. Nor are most people, last time I checked.

Now is the fact that women are better at child-rearing because of "nature's plan", or does it have to do with centuries in ingrained societal bullshit involving gender roles? Perhaps a little of both.

I'll grant you that women DO seem to be better at rearing children on the whole, but I don't think that a randomly selected woman is going to inherently be any better than a randomly selected man. It depends ENTIRELY on the person. You see Vince, in REALITY, people often transcend your limited shallow stereotypes and don't always fit into the tiny little boxes you try to squeeze them into.

Personally, I don't find it unsettling when a man breaks down and cries. In fact, in most cases when a man isn't so cowardly that he feels he needs to hide away his emotions, I find it refreshingly brave and honest.

It doesn't surprise me Vince that given the choice, you'd rather have a burly lumberjack type come into a burning building and whisk you away in his big warm furry arms than suffer through any other available options, like oh, say a WOMAN! Although maybe you could grope her fake-tits as your bikini-clad firefighter babe (which is the only kind you'd accept, I'll wager) swoops in to save the day.

While it's true that men tend to be stronger, there are PLENTY of strong women out there, and a good lot of them are significantly stronger than you or me. I'm not saying the standards should be lowered to accomodate anyone (if they truly have), but if they CAN do the job, why should they be stopped? Where's the problem? Would you be ashamed to be saved by a strong female firefighter?

[The_Rorschach]

"Being strong and dumb can get me killed"

And yet you're the typist behind the feelevil character?

Everyone has emotions Proto, men are in touch with them as much as women are, but in past men refused to let them rule their lives. Thats the difference. If you had a disease which rendered your legs worthless, and painful to use, would you hide your discomfort in order to appear unbroken -to put forth a face of strength that others could place faith in, rather than cater to your weakness? Thats the choice Roosevelt had, and he made the only acceptable choice there was. A broken man could not lead a broken country and have the esteem of her citizens.

We lost three thousand people in the September Eleven strike. They were climbing over ome another in stairwells to save their own lives. No order, only chaos. On the Titanic, fifteen hundred were lost, and while hundred might have fallen over the bow railing, just as many returned to their rooms or the dancehall and waited for death with equanimty (I hope I'm spelling that right, I hate posting first thing when I wake up).

There is something noble about that Proto, and I wish it were existant today.

[Vibecrewangel]

A couple of things to think about....

In nature, in many species, the males are the pretty shiny ones. Often smaller than the females.
In many species the females do the hunting and the child rearing.

Make-up was originally worn by men. So were big poofy wigs. Men were the first to wear shoes with heels.

The shape of the female body has changed quite a bit over the last few "years".
Women used to be either husky or thin based on environment and social standing.
Women began to wear corsets to give them deeper curves.
Flash forward quite bit and you have bodies like Betty Paige, Garbo, Monroe. Curvy as hell. That was the body of the time.
Since then women have become less curvy, more androgenous (sp?) in their own right. Even on thin women waists are larger and hips are smaller than they were just a few decades ago.
There is a theory that the types of body alterations that become popular do effect the following generations. Sort of Darwinish. The more desireable the more likely to breed.....you get the point.
Think about all the boob jobs from the 70's and 80's. Now, look at the teenagers today. Far more busty than even my generation was. Yes I know there are other factors such as horomones in the food, however the same theory states that this particular evolution was simply sped up.

Men have become smaller for a variety of factors. One of the largest being that much of thev hard heavy labor men used to do is done by machines. Instead of hefting buckets of brick up a construction site they are lifted by equipment. Instead of digging trenches by hand there are machines to do it now. Since size and strength is no longer needed the genetics have altered to adapt.

Men have become less masculine and women have become less feminine. Just a sign of the times I guess.

[Vibecrewangel]

Edit - Wow my first double post....

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

What's false about it?

C'mon Ror, his homophobia, his labeling of men who do not fit his narrow definition of masculinity as "pseudo-fags"...He is so transparently insecure that it is laughable.

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

Scores of others below decks continued shovelling coal into the four story engines to keep electricity running to the telelgraph that those on the lifeboats might be saved knowing their own lives would be forfeit for doing so.

I could care less how someone dresses, but there has been a shift and the men today are made of weaker stuff than those who came before them.

I understand your point Ror. Yes, men are less stoic and reliable than those who came before them. But so are women.
My great-great grandmother supported her children and her alchoholic husband by working her hands to the bone as a laundress.
My grandmother lived through the Great Depression, WWII, worked her way through college, raised a brood of eight children without modern conviences. My mother was the second eldest and took care of her younger siblings. The fact that every generation is less strong than the one which came before isn't a gender issue, its a wider social issue that affects both men and women.

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Uhhhh... Proto, gender rolls exists because there are certain acts that are more suited to men or women. It isn't a "silly notion", it's defined by nature.

It is true that men generally are more suited for physically demanding occupations such as a firefighting. However, as we become more and more technlogically advanced, we have less and less need for physical jobs (which are more often done by machines) and more need for jobs requiring mental skill, something in which men and women are equal. One hardly needs the muscles of a prizefighter to work a computer.

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

Everyone has emotions Proto, men are in touch with them as much as women are, but in past men refused to let them rule their lives. Thats the difference. If you had a disease which rendered your legs worthless, and painful to use, would you hide your discomfort in order to appear unbroken -to put forth a face of strength that others could place faith in, rather than cater to your weakness? Thats the choice Roosevelt had, and he made the only acceptable choice there was. A broken man could not lead a broken country and have the esteem of her citizens.

There is something noble about that Proto, and I wish it were existant today.

Roosevelt hid his disablity because of the perceptions about handicapped people during his time. He hid it not because he was ashamed of it, but because he knew that people would not believe in him if they saw it. Revealing that one has a disability does not amount to catering to it.

[The_Rorschach]

First Glowbelly and now you. If I were slightly more paranoid, I would suspect something is up with the sudden niceties. My response wasn't just in regards to Men, its a commentary on our total generation as well as the two prior, but Men were the topic of the post so I limited my scope a bit.

"He hid it not because he was ashamed of it, but because he knew that people would not believe in him if they saw it. "

There was nothing to be ashamed of. But his attitude is vastly different from those whom fake injuries and make suicide attempts for attention and pity.

[CaptainBubba]

I'm just mad because I'm afraid that I'll be coming on to a girl and she'll kind of subtley reject me with body language and because society tells me this actually means yes I'll continue, even though NEW society tells me it means to stop.

And the stereotypes have gotten kind of strange now too. I lift weights alot and my firends used to tease the crap out of me for it because of the correlation between guys who work out and da' gays. I kind of understand the concept to. It does seem slightly affeminate to me how much I care about my body image, but fuck. I wanna look good naked. Manly strength, at least for me, isn't really the goal.

Also I feel like I have to hide or play down my deep DEEP affection for cooking pastries.

[VinceZeb]

Originally Posted by Protoclown

So much stupidity...where to even begin?

I guess I must be against the "natural order" then Vince, because I've always been pretty expressive about my feelings, nor have I felt any shame at all for the mere sake of having them. I consider having feelings a simple part of being human, not an aspect of what you would no doubt call my "pussyfication". I am not a robot, Vince. Nor are most people, last time I checked.

Now is the fact that women are better at child-rearing because of "nature's plan", or does it have to do with centuries in ingrained societal bullshit involving gender roles? Perhaps a little of both.

I'll grant you that women DO seem to be better at rearing children on the whole, but I don't think that a randomly selected woman is going to inherently be any better than a randomly selected man. It depends ENTIRELY on the person. You see Vince, in REALITY, people often transcend your limited shallow stereotypes and don't always fit into the tiny little boxes you try to squeeze them into.

Personally, I don't find it unsettling when a man breaks down and cries. In fact, in most cases when a man isn't so cowardly that he feels he needs to hide away his emotions, I find it refreshingly brave and honest.

It doesn't surprise me Vince that given the choice, you'd rather have a burly lumberjack type come into a burning building and whisk you away in his big warm furry arms than suffer through any other available options, like oh, say a WOMAN! Although maybe you could grope her fake-tits as your bikini-clad firefighter babe (which is the only kind you'd accept, I'll wager) swoops in to save the day.

While it's true that men tend to be stronger, there are PLENTY of strong women out there, and a good lot of them are significantly stronger than you or me. I'm not saying the standards should be lowered to accomodate anyone (if they truly have), but if they CAN do the job, why should they be stopped? Where's the problem? Would you be ashamed to be saved by a strong female firefighter?

I am an emotional person, Proto. I feed of emotions. But the way you talk I can see you walking around with your emo glasses and your diary writing down abou thow much "pain" and "sorrow" you feel everyday.

And yes, it is because of gender roles that women are better to raise children. Years upon years of nature and social structure hasn't proven that at all

Most people do fit in my boxes. Now, they may jut out a bit, but most people are sterotypical. Which is not a bad thing, btw. It just is.

I could care less who saves me, Proto. As long as someone was able to fulfill the requirements. And yes, proto, the requirements HAVE BEEN LOWERED. If they do not fulfill the requirements, then they shouldn't be allowed. But if they do, then by all means they should be a part of the group.

[mburbank]

You still don't know how to use the word 'allowed' in a sentence.
This was a new way to use it incorrectly though.

[VinceZeb]

Should I point out some of your grammatical and spelling errors, Schwartz, or should you try to post a half-ass response to my post?

[mburbank]

You can point out my spelling errors all you like. I am VERY bad at spelling.

If you can find my gramatical errors, please feel free to post and describe them. I don't think you can do either. The Schwartz thing was funny, becuase it's a Jewish name and I'm Jewish.

I've already responded to the 'meat' of this thread by suggesting you'll need mail order bride servie if you wnt to get married. That sums up everything I want to say about your posts on this topic.

[kellychaos]

I, for one, am glad to see the Cro-magnon side of the topic being argued so eloquently by our submarine commander. If you can't trust the words of a powerful military leader, what other faith is there to cling to in life.

[VinceZeb]

Man, you just made me a bitch, didn't ya kelly?

Fucking idiot.

[Protoclown]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

I am an emotional person, Proto. I feed of emotions. But the way you talk I can see you walking around with your emo glasses and your diary writing down abou thow much "pain" and "sorrow" you feel everyday.

Sorry to disappoint Vince, but I'm far too busy grabbing fake tits and going out with girls of varied ethnic backgrounds (that I will describe to you in great detail in derogatory terms in the near future) to be writing anything down in some gay diary.

[VinceZeb]

Good for you, Proto!

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Man, you just made me a bitch, didn't ya kelly?

Fucking idiot.

Pretty much. Call for a vote. Can I see a show of hands?

[FS]

HEY MBURBANK, I BET YOUR NAME IS FYVUSH COHEN

[mburbank]

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU, FS! FUCK YOU MAN! FUCK YOU!!!!



Vincey, I'm dying for you to make an archive of my badly written sentences. C'mon chicken. I'll let you off the hook for bluffing about having a sub letter if you just back up this one threat. C'mon, chicky baby! Byuk-byuk-byuk, chica-chica chicky!

[Zebra 3]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Why do you think that men are better suited for jobs such as being a firefighter? They LOWER the standards of a firefighter so women can be included.

:/ - He's right, the only way for a woman to pass the tough physical firefighter test is to lower the standards. It was once proposed in my city to do such a thing, but after the fire chief spoke against it the idea it was quickly dropped.