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Originally Posted by Preechr
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Originally Posted by Kevin
I think someone who walks into a voting booth, votes for who or what they believe in, even if it means transcending their Party line, is acting in a partisan fashion.
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Yes, but that's NOT partisan voting... But, as I said, I know what you mean. |
YES, it is. Partisan can mean unquestioning Party loyalty, but it can also mean "A weapon having a blade with lateral projections mounted on the end of a long shaft, used chiefly in the 16th and 17th centuries." (thank you dictionary.com).
Partisan voting these days, in its popular sense, is presented as the opposite of compromise or "moderation", which is untrue. It can also mean to be dedicated to a certain interest, which isn't uncommon in a country where everybody has an acronym waiting to represent them.
But I'm glad you "know what I mean" anyway.
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I also agree with many of your points, just not your Liberal perspective from which you've derived them. I believe your own ideas wholly transcend the DNC agenda, and that your preference to them is a matter of the better of two evils... and you are definitely no Republican... hehe...
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I can agree with some conservative ideals, I also have a bit of an appeal towards Libertarianism (although much like Anarchism, most people seem to pick and choose qualities they prefer, rather than adopting the entire ideology).
I don't prefer the DNC over anything, and I'm sorry if I gave that false impression. I think Terry McAuliffe is a twit, who probably had a big hand in many of the defeats suffered by the Dems in 2002. I despise the DLC even more.
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Originally Posted by Kev
I think it's this dismissive attitude over Iraq that will serve to enrage "Joe Six Pack." If there's one things Americans hate more than public deception, it's probably a condescending dismissal of the cause of said deception.
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I think what he sees is the Dems crying foul over every little thing they can find, and (more often than not) over-reacting to what turns out to be nothing.
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Can I have a few examples of these sweet nothings???
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The war did not go as the left predicted, and Joe's proud of that.
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I think you're misrepresenting the views of "the Left" on this war. I
know there were anarchists and commies out there who wanted to see America lose, and some communist groups even chastized "the Left" for condemning Saddam Hussein (something folks like ABCDxxxx claims never happened).
You Sir give "the Left" far too much credit. It's far too divisive and elitist to actually agree on one slogan or thought pattern, and personally, I think most of thwe anti-war folks I know sincerely wanted our men and women to sit this one out.
I also have a problem with your claim that the war didn't go as expected. Do you think people on the Left deny the military capabilities of America?? I personally, when realizing the inevitability of the war, wanted it to be swift and painless as possible. I HOPED al of our gadgets and toys payed off.
But next you're going to tell me that it was a careful and humane war, which is true, but why? In February (?), Rummy was throwing the word "nuclear" around in the same sentence as Baghdad. Don't ya think record breaking protests around the world had just a tiny bit to do with our military's caution...?
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proud of that that, especially in the light of Clinton's seeming inability to do ANYTHING bout them thar ragheads, he's probably going to vote Bush in 04.
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I think many of the opinion polls would disagree with you (now of course you can dismiss those, but please first admit that you probably cited Bush's
high approval polls at one point or another).
Granted, those same polls tend to show that most Americans DON'T care about the WMD, and are just proud that we have liberated Iraq (these same citizens will of course dismiss the possibility of sending troops into Liberia on humanitarian grounds. One puritanical crusade is enough for them).
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DNC rhetoric is more than ever preaching to the choir when it needs more than ever to be reaching out to the masses.
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Like Al From's latest slap in the face to the protest movement, calling them an aberration...? DLC and DNC are practically one in the same in their thought process, and they certainly aren't preaching to any choir, they are instead preaching to a mythical American constructed by the Republican Party.
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The Dems need to run on issues, not just the defamation of the other guys. Joe's just not buying that tactic because this is NOT 1996 anymore.
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Whatever "1996" means. You mean a time when Americans were stupid enough to vote Democratic....?
Defamation occurs on both ends, and it's also the lesser-Party of the time who does their fair share of it. I think this is an important aspect to being the opposition, however I will agree that the Democrats need to balance this with MUCH more substance.
But I think George F. Will recently made a good point pertaining to that matter. The reason "Joe Six Pack" votes Republican is because Republicans have black and white answers for things. They speak with a perceived "moral clarity" that appeals to Joe. Joe doesn't want discussion, he doesn't want debate, he want to hold an economic sumit, he wants definitive answers and solutions. That's why he voted for "you." I personally don't like this way of thinking, and it's an American flaw, IMO. However it must be respected, and this is something the Democrats seem to have ignored.
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I was also happy to see W looking seriously at a national sales tax, and seriously dissapointed to never even see a report issued before he failed to bully through a meaningful tax cut while signing more checks than any president you remember.
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A sales tax debate may be a complete tangent, but I think the proverbial chickens will come home to roost if Republicans seriously propose a national sales tax over an income tax. A sales tax on items, a presumably high one, will seem like an income tax to Americans, one that hits them every time they purchase something. This would also effect people of lower incomes more, because they'd be paying the same tax on a lesser quality of goods (on average) compared to the evil rich man.
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And I had a typo. I'm truly sorry. I hope you will forgive me.
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Forgive me, I wasn't trying to be picky. I was being honest when I said economics is a weakness of mine, so your point conflicted with the little bit that I do in fact know.
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I was referring to the fact that our economy grows every year, so it's stupid to look at raw numbers and announce that we have the biggest deficit ever. It's still a smaller slice of a bigger pie.
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I believe 1/3 of our government programs functioned on money they didn't actually have this past fiscal year. That's not a cooked number, that's a problem, IMO.
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Deficits, for that matter, are a GOP tool used to fight Democrat spending, and you know enough about politics to know that, I think. To me, that's fine as long as the Republicans aren't outspending the Dems.
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Right, but it isn't a "tool" as much as it's a traditionally conservative perspective on balanced budgets and low spending. Some Dems are acting more conservatively on the matter than Bush actually is, which kind of defies your whole "everything's going to the Leftist hell" theory.
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As I said, everything has slipped a notch to the left. If you want a Socialist, vote Democrat. If you want a Democrat, vote Republican. If you want an America based on the Constitution, vote Libertarian.
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Mike Savage couldn't have said it better himself.
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