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kellychaos · #76

Seriously! Are you really going to debate the costs of private insurance versus company endorsed insurance with a person who works in human resources for a living and expect to earn any credibility? Go back to NewsFarter please.

mburbank · #77

That's kind of snotty. Maybe she just disagrees with you. It is possible to disagree with you AND not be stupid. It would a little arrogant to assume you had some kind of stranglehold on objective truth.

I mean, any old idiot can think they have the deed to the truth. See, I think a societal safety net is a good idea. Apart from simple compassion, I might need it myself one day, and if I do, I'd like it to be there. Sure, the system gets abused and taken advantage of, but if systems didn't get abused what would Bechtel do when they want to overcharge for government contracts? I don't think that means we should scrap the Pentagon.

Now, you may disagree with all that. That doesn't mean you need to sue your college. You know, if you went to one.

Burned In Effigy · #78

So just b/c you work in a field means only you can have an opinion or know anything relevant or have information that is debate worth? Come on, well all know that isn't true in any case. I'm a Cop, so anything related to my field I know more about than anyone on here?

Vibecrewangel · #79

Quote:

I’m not really a mind reader, so for the sake of simplicity we’ll speak hypothetically. Let’s say your company produces widgets for profit. Any money diverted from the income derived from your companies sales of widgets, say to employ HR people to manage employee benefits and whatnot, is a loss no matter how much you wish to sugar-coat it or “Yes, but…” me. Remember: indirect profit is still a financial loss. It’s just managed better. Your department doesn’t directly profit your company. You are a conceded loss to your employer. Thanks for playing.

And what if the HR people were not employed specifically for that purpose? Suppose that those people were already employed and this is just one aspect of their job among many others. Which is fairly standard. Then the cost to administer the benefits is either quite low or nothing at all. Of course that depends on how the company is run. So please try not to generalize so much.

Quote:

You are obviously not considering the total cost of your company’s entitlement programs, both financial and human. Think it through again, looking at the big picture, and if you have further questions, file a lawsuit against the college you attended.

Never attended college. But I have been doing payroll, HR, corporate taxes, and budgeting for companies and currently a university since I was 18. I am well aware of the costs both direct and indirect.

BTW - have you seen what health and dental coverage costs in CA? It is way less expensive for employers to cover it. Most Californians would rather take the $35000.00 a year job with insurance than the $38000.00 without.

AChimp · #80

Healthcare rocks.

You just need lots of resources for it to operate smoothly, which is Canada's only problem. The idea is sound and benefits everyone, but people have to put stuff in for it to work. Of course, there are always whiners like Vinth who will take what is given to them and bitch and moan about it all the way.

Preechr · #81

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellychaos

Seriously! Are you really going to debate the costs of private insurance versus company endorsed insurance with a person who works in human resources for a living and expect to earn any credibility? Go back to NewsFarter please.

Not really, no. There's no debate to be had. I've explained it pretty well, and offered to field any questions should they come up. It's not really a rash assumption that I'm more informed on the topic, at least to me.

I don't particularly enjoy the throwing darts at each other side of internet forums, but I understand that to not participate in kind when attacked is to be "OWNED" or whatever. If you guys want to leave your barbs at the door, I will do so as well.

Jeanette X · #82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

A large majority of funds goes to welfare. The question is whether it should. You, I'm assuming, believe yes. Vince believes no. I believe neither of you are seeing the middle ground. .

No, I do not believe yes. I believe that the system needs be changed, but damned if I know how.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

The problem with this board is no matter what I say, it will be dismissed even thought I am right about 90+% of the time. So no matter what I say or show, it won't be believed, but I do like a challenge.

Well if you actually (gasp!) gave SOURCES for your information when asked for them instead of refusing to I might believe you.

Vibecrewangel · #83

And where did you get your information? College? Books? Websites? Someome else told you? Or practical experience?

As someone who has had to run budgets (some for government funds) over and over and over and over.....and has done this along side people who have degrees in accounting......I can assure that what you learn in school and how it works in the real world can be miles apart.

And I hope you are more of an expert in your field than someone who hasn't ever worked in it.

Preechr · #84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vibecrewangel

And I hope you are more of an expert in your field than someone who hasn't ever worked in it.

I am. Excuse me for being evasive, but there are only a few people that know exactly what I do for a living, even at Newsfilter where I have many friends. It's not really information that's vital to understanding what I'm saying, though I see where it might help you BELIEVE what I'm saying.

Either way, we can agree to disagree if you wish. My as yet unanswered question is really more important to this debate than my profession.

Burned In Effigy · #85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vibecrewangel

And I hope you are more of an expert in your field than someone who hasn't ever worked in it.

It depends on the job and the persons function. Just b/c I'm a cop, doesn't mean I know every single thing that happens within my profession. Someone who doesn't necessarily do my job may be able to enlighten me about something that I am clueless about, although I'm not speaking necessarily about my day to day job functions, but more or less higher up in the ranks.

Vibecrewangel · #86

My comment about being an expert was for Burned. It was in response to a post he/she made.

(I guess this why they use so much copy and paste on NewsFilter.....I'm just used to people remembering recent posts in a thread. Sorry, my bad)

Quote:

My as yet unanswered question is really more important to this debate than my profession.

What didn't I answer?

Preechr · #87

"How many of you Oh So Concerned and Sensitive citizens actually donate your own money to charities that protect old people from Financial Death due to their age? I see no hands being raised. I suppose that's something you only care enough about to bitch when other people don't get forced to put THEIR money where YOUR mouth is, right?"~me, earlier...

mburbank · #88

I did and you completely ignored it . Did you miss it, or were you just put off by the fact that you assumed none of us did, and I do?

Burned In Effigy · #89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vibecrewangel

My comment about being an expert was for Burned. It was in response to a post he/she made.

And I responded to your comment. And to add I dont' believe just b/c you work in a particular profession, that doesn't generally make you an "expert" in that field, nor does it make you know more than the next person. In some cases it may, but to assume you have to work in a profession to know what goes on or about what that profession does or stands for is incorrect.

Preechr · #90

Totally missed that. Sorry.

I actually did assume SOME of you are charitable. Law of large numbers and all that... I wouldn't have asked the question had I not had any idea of the answer. I asked and answered it to make a point, which I'll probably finish up later if I get any more replies.

Very admirable, Max.

But if it's a Vince-ism you're looking for, I could say something about a Jew donating his time instead of his money... Eh... bad jokes aren't my forte.

Vibecrewangel · #91

Burned - I know you responded to it, and I followed up. My follow up was in part what preechr responded to. There was also the "miles apart" section.
It's not a biggie. I just have to remember to be more clear who's post I am responding too. That's something I don't often have to do around here. Hell some of our comments cross threads and most people still follow them.

Preechr - As I am not one of your Oh-so-concerned, I didn't feel I needed to respond. However, since you would like one, here it is. I also don't give money to a charity. I give it to my grandmother who refuses any assistance from outside sources. She rasied me and it is the least I can do make her as comfortable as she made me while I was growing up.
As for time, I volunteer at the special ed grade school where I used to work. The severely handicapped kids touched me such a way that even after I quit I wanted to be around them. I also donate art supplies to the same school when I can.
Additionally I do volunteer work for GYRO's World of Terror. An organization whos profits go to aid several of the "keeping kids off of drugs" programs (okay, I know.....humorous to those of you that know me) For 3 months out of the year I put in 4 hours a day after work, 10 hours on Saturdays and 8 hours on Sundays. Usually I work security. Sometimes I help wioth marketing or with the actors. Depends on who needs it more when I sign up.

Personally, I don't see how this relates to insurance, but there is your answer.

Preechr · #92

Verrrrry Admirable.

I think you believe I'm picking on you guys here, but that's not my intention. I asked that question originally in the context of the original debate concerning the right or role of the government in providing safety nets for citizens. The insurance bit sorta sprung out of that.

I agree that there is a role for government in providing for those that cannot do so for themselves, just not in the role that government has assumed for itself within the last 60 years. I think I've already explained how power over and responsibility for one's life should radiate outward from the individual, losing much of it's strength by the time Federal Government gets a lick.

The time that you and Max spend "giving back," so to say, fits right in there. You guys are not the problem. Many of those that have yet to answer, because they have nothing to say, are the problem. They are the ones that are all about charity and support for the needy... just so long as SOMEBODY ELSE does the work and provides the money.

They are seeking to punish folks that have more than they do, not help the less fortunate. If their concern was truly for the needy, they would be helping the needy, not bitching about Bill Gates not giving his fair share.

My point was to show people like you that you are in very, very bad company. Let's sit back and watch if that happens.

Vibecrewangel · #93

Um....butthead.....LOL

You might want to bear in mind that many of the people in these forums are quite young. Just out of high school for a lot of them. Some still in college.
You get the point.

Preechr · #94

Well it would be kinda silly to try and build my Dark, Teeming Legions with recruitment efforts aimed at bitter, old people that already hate the world, now, wouldn't it?

MUHUHAHAHA!!!

*tents fingers*

Seriously, I got that already. I've said exactly one million times over on my board that I am continually impressed by the quality of "kid" one finds on message boards, once you find a way to reach them. I don't remember being as advanced as these guys are when I was their age, and I was a bright kid.

Limitless possibilities exist with them, and it pisses me off to see our world squander their abilities and ignore them to the point of alienating them entirely.

Gotta go now. Dinner Reservations. Y'all have fun. I've had a blast so far!