LEFTIST LEANING LABOR UNIONS MAY PUT MY COMPANY.............

[ziggytrix]

Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue.

Look, would it help if I TYPED IT IN ALL CAPS?

[AChimp]

Ronnie, Ziggy is trying to tell you that Delta sucks because they spent too much money acquiring assets that they haven't even finished paying for yet and haven't attracted enough customers to help foot the bill.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Pre 9/11 there was no problem.

The pilots recieved the largest pay raise they ever had just prior to that.

Since then, they have refused to cut back that payraise or even stop scheduled payraises.

They make 17% more than any other pilots in the industry and 25% more than the average....and that's before the $85 million raise the got 11 days ago.

Delta has not aquired any new assets since 9/11.

[ziggytrix]

9/11 happened to all airlines, not just Delta.

[derrida]

Originally Posted by The One and Only...

Agribusiness doesn't really exist.

Can you support that statement? I think the American public can almost intuitively tell you that the model of the "family farm" is in decline. Shit, in 1993 the US census declared that it was no longer worthwhile to compile farm residency statistics, as the population was so small as to be inconsequential.

Tell me- where does food come from, then?


edit: I created a new thread for agecon faggery. thanks

[AChimp]

Dude, this thread isn't about agriculture. Don't let OAO threadjack another topic.

The filing said Delta has "significant obligations'' due next year, including $1.23 billion of debt. Delta also expects 2005 employee pension contributions of more than the $460 million paid this year and about $1 billion in aircraft financing.

Delta had $2.45 billion in cash as of the end of March, down from $2.92 billion three months earlier. It borrowed $225 million in the first quarter for regional-jet purchases and in February issued $325 million in convertible senior notes and agreed to buy 32 more of the smaller jets, valued at $780 million.

Nope. No new assets here.

Again, $85 million is nothing compared to $3.26 billion due to lost revenue. Maybe you're getting things confused because 85 is bigger than 3.26; I'll help make it a little clearer for you. $85 million is $0.085 billion. If Delta got to keep the pilot's pay raise, there'd still be $3.17 billion of debt.

As Ziggy said already, 9/11 affected every airline. You can't start blaming unions for customers deciding to use other modes of transportation.

[Ronnie Raygun]

I'm SHOCKED at your stupidity, Chimp.

You know, I don't have a business degree either but it doesn't take one to realize that you have no understand of how business works.

You are mixing up all the numbers here.....you should seriously go back and read the article v e r y s l o w l y.

"Again, $85 million is nothing compared to $3.26 billion due to lost revenue." - Chimp

No. It's not.....

"Maybe you're getting things confused because 85 is bigger than 3.26; I'll help make it a little clearer for you. $85 million is $0.085 billion. If Delta got to keep the pilot's pay raise, there'd still be $3.17 billion of debt." - Chimp

It's so obvious that you are the one who's confused....

The 3.26 billion is money that has already been lost due to loss of revenues attributed to 9/11 and pilot pay raises. The $85 million how much MORE we are going to lose next year just from the pilot pay raise 12 days ago......so as you can see, it's completely separate.

HAHA! You're such a silly little ape.

"As Ziggy said already, 9/11 affected every airline." - Chimp

Yes it did, and unlike some we survived 9/11 thanks to the capital we have saved.

So what separates us from other major airlines other than the fact that before 9/11 we had more money than anyone else.

Exactly what I've been telling you.....the pilot labor union.

"You can't start blaming unions for customers deciding to use other modes of transportation." - Chimp

Well, other airlines can afford to droip their fares because their pilots don't make close to 20% more than any other pilots in the industry. If we didn't have that burden, we could afford to drop our fares a little.

[mburbank]

So here's what I'm confused about...

Wether You're right naldo, and it's all pilots faults, or Zig and Chimp are right and there are lots of causes, Delta looks fairly screwed.

How is it you're so secure? I'm sure you think I'm 'goading' you or 'baiting' you' becuase I'm an 'asshole' or maybe becuase I 'hate what America stands for', but I'm completely curious.

That's usually followed by you saying "I don't have to tell you anything. Figure it out for yourself".

My point is, you've always been optomistic about the economy, where as I've known a lot of folks who''ve had a really, really roough ride the last few years, when their companies went through the sort of thing yours i going through now. Several of those companies ceased to exist. What's your secret? Are you psychic? Where is your job security coming from?

[AChimp]

Ronnie, it is evident that you must also be completely unaware of how a business works. Have you ever taken a single accounting course?

The 3.26 billion is money that has already been lost due to loss of revenues attributed to 9/11 and pilot pay raises. The $85 million how much MORE we are going to lose next year just from the pilot pay raise 12 days ago......so as you can see, it's completely separate.

No, the article does not mention pilot pay raises. The $3.26 billion has been lost due to competition reduced fairs and revenue. Read the article v e r y s l o w l y. You do not lose revenue by paying your employees more; you reduce your profit. Revenue is how much money you take IN, and profit is how much money you actually make that goes towards paying for things. Profit can go towards paying off debts, but throwing $85 million at a $3.26 billion debt won't stem the tide like you seem to be implying. It's like trying to bail out the Titanic with a bucket.

Even if "pilot raises" contributed to 25% of the total debt load that Delta has, it would take 10 separate raises of $85 million each to reach that point. Ten raises in four years?

Giving the pilots a raise is not the cause of the problem, and it barely contributes at all compared to $780 million for new planes.
When you are facing massive downturns in revenue, you do not go out and buy buy buy.

Like Max said, Delta has much bigger problems to worry about.

Well, other airlines can afford to droip their fares because their pilots don't make close to 20% more than any other pilots in the industry. If we didn't have that burden, we could afford to drop our fares a little.

No, other airlines are just running themselves smarter. That's what capitalism is all about. Delta should become better at negotiating contracts if they don't like paying out raises all the time.

BTW, when I say "other modes of transportation", I'm referring to the fact that people are choosing OTHER modes of transportation, not just walking to the next kiosk at the terminal.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"No, the article does not mention pilot pay raises. The $3.26 billion has been lost due to competition reduced fairs and revenue. You do not lose revenue by paying your employees more; you reduce your profit. Revenue is how much money you take IN, and profit is how much money you actually make that goes towards paying for things." - Chimp

I've already covered this. ....but you refuse to pay attention.

We lost revenue because we couldn't afford to lower our fares because of the overhead we are paying out to the pilots. In short, the pilots have put us in a bind. You are looking at this from a completely simplistic point of view because that's all you can understand. Pilot pay effects all sorts of other options we might have other wise. Instead, of paying pilots...we could be using that money to attract customers by adding benefits to our Skymiles program, reducing fares, etc.

".. throwing $85 million at a $3.26 billion debt won't stem the tide like you seem to be implying. It's like trying to bail out the Titanic with a bucket." - Chimp

I agree. That's why they should also give up 16.5% of their wages help their comany survive while still remaining the highest paid pilots in the industry. That will stem the tide.

"Even if "pilot raises" contributed to 25% of the total debt load that Delta has, it would take 10 separate raises of $85 million each to reach that point. Ten raises in four years?"

The raise they got before 9/11 was much larger. Like I said before, it was the largest payraise in history for airline pilots. The 85$ million dollar raise was just a regularly scheduled payraise. When they got their contract they went from being a couple of % points behind United to beind 17% higher than United. You're just ignorant of the background.

"Giving the pilots a raise is not the cause of the problem, and it barely contributes at all compared to $780 million for new planes.
When you are facing massive downturns in revenue, you do not go out and buy buy buy. " - Chimp

It's not like Delta is blowing money and those assets are not yet aquired... therefore it's not a number you can use to prove your point. You have to have new airplanes to have a successful airline. It's a necessity....and at some point it will cost you more to in "up keep" and maintenence costs than it would to buy new airplanes. ....but you didn't think about that did you?

"Like Max said, Delta has much bigger problems to worry about." - Max

Like you, Max knows little or nothing about this situation.

[mburbank]

PSYCHIC NALDO! WHAT MAKES YOUR JOB SO SECURE!?! C'mon, man, I need to know where your optomism is coming from. It would help me understand things a whole lot better.

[mesobe]

wow.. a major airline with financial troubles. lets not talk about anything new or anything.


have fun working at McDicks

[AChimp]

Ronnie, your viewpoint has become biased because of all the lunchroom conversations you're heard on the topic. You can't blame Delta's situation entirely on the pilot's salary. If all they talked about was how much money they're losing because of bags of peanuts, you'd be posting about that in all-caps on here instead.

In all likelihood, they're probably also paying YOU too much (which is why you should ask for a pay decrease, ASAP. Encourage your ticket punching coworkers to do the same to show those dirty pilots who the real Americans are!). There's probably someone out there who'd do what you do with a big smile for half as much.

Why did Delta negotiate a contract like that has become so detrimental to begin with? Why did they hand the previous CEO massive bonuses and a seven figure going away present? It's survival of the fittest in a capitalist economy, Ronnie! If Delta is dumb enough to negotiate a contract that causes them to bottom out, why, it would have only been a matter of time before something else happened. If bad stuff didn't happen to dumb companies, the good ones wouldn't shine, would they?

This bankruptcy issue is a ploy to get the union to grant concessions. The union will laugh in their face and demand concessions in return (like contract extensions, which is what they wanted last year in exchange for a pay cut). Take a few courses on HR to find out all about it.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"PSYCHIC NALDO! WHAT MAKES YOUR JOB SO SECURE!?! C'mon, man, I need to know where your optomism is coming from. It would help me understand things a whole lot better." - Max

Read the article Max. We have 2 and 1/2 billion in cash and we're going bankrupt to break the pilots contract unless they give in.

Either way, we're in the clear.

If not for the pilots contract, there would be no other reason to go bankrupt because we have enough cash to keep operating for another five years or so......that's if we lose money for another five years...if not, it's irrelevent.

Plus, we have better management than any other airline.

[mesobe]

well.. thanks to the capitalistic Utopia that we live in, the fat cats at the top win while little shits at the bottom get squeezed into the toilet. I bet Delta even has a "dead peasents" insurance package... if Ronnie-boy gets killed by his stupidity on the job, his corpse buys the boss a brand new car.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Yeah! People here get killed with paper clips all the time!

[Emu]

Hey! Fuck you! My grandmother got her lung punctured by one!

[mesobe]

yeah well guess what!! you dont actually need to die AT work. you can waste away in your bed from some terminal illness, or die in a car or skii accident.

Its the wonderful democratic and free world we live in! vote bush!!

[Ronnie Raygun]

"you can waste away in your bed from some terminal illness, or die in a car or skii accident."- mesobe

Yes, you are right.

These things never happened before Bush took office.

[mesobe]

its what bush stands for you fucking idiot. You support a government who shits on you and laughs.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Yes.

Bush supports death.

....but especially terminal illness.

[mesobe]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

Yes.

Bush supports death.

....but especially terminal illness.

what the fuck are you talking about?

[mburbank]

See what I was fishing for was to see if you had some job security beyond faith in your company.

I hope your faith is well founded. I think it would be great to work for a company and be able to place your faith in it and not get screwed.

[davinxtk]

Yeah, I sorta skimmed the rest of this thread, and definitely didn't really read much of it at all, but did he address how this has to do with the labor union being left-leaning?

[mburbank]

They have a UNION! That's practically communism right there.