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VinceZeb · #1

http://www.drudgereport.com/md323.htm

Look at this, keep trying to bring up the picture.... and then, after that, if you still don't care about what goes on in our world, please do the world a favor and jump off a high-rise building.

Protoclown · #2

I think that to suggest that you wish harm to befall those people who don't care about the war is even WORSE than someone who displays complete apathy about it. I'll take the apathy over malicious intent (or wishing, in this case), it's the lesser of two evils.

Yes, I think it's fucking pathetic that there are American citizens who don't give a flying fuck about this war, or more to the point: that they don't care about PEOPLE DYING (their own countrymen, even, as if that should give it more weight).

But if someone hasn't cared up to this point, then they're not going to care if they see this. The ONLY thing that can make those people care is if someone they KNOW dies as a result of this war, and that kind of blase selfishness digusts me to the core of my being. I still don't bear any ill will toward them or wish any harm befall them, foolish though they may be.

VinceZeb · #3

I agree/disagree with you, Proto. I dont want those people to die, I am just being dramatic. It is a message board and all and words do mean things, but I dont want to seem like I want a mass-suicide to happen.

But I bring it up because some guy on her, James something, was saying that he didnt care whatsoever. I then informed him he was a worthless sheeple puppet and went off. I can understand if people agree/disagree with war, but not to care about our troops is disgusting. Like the guy, Ying Sung Chung King throw some pots down a flight of stairs (yes, very racist remark, I do know) who led the SF protests on Thursday who said he would rather see soliders die from the US then Iraqi citizens. Well I guess he got his wish.

Protoclown · #4

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

who said he would rather see soliders die from the US then Iraqi citizens.

I don't think you'll find a single person on here that will disagree on the point that that is a HORRIBLE statement for someone to have made. I vehemently disagree with that sentiment and would prefer to see NO ONE die at all. I weigh all human life the same. I cannot say I would "rather" see an Iraqi citizen die than a US soldier, even though I have friends in the military. To me, that is JUST as bad as what this man said.

The only thing I would "rather" see is that nobody die in this conflict at all, but that is not possible.

Jeanette X · #5

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

I can understand if people agree/disagree with war, but not to care about our troops is disgusting.

Amen to that!

The_Rorschach · #6

" I weigh all human life the same." -Proto

All human life post-natum you mean.

Everyone has a choice Proto, and to be honest, I would rather see those whom are willing to sacrifice themselves and others in support of a tyrannical institution die as opposed to those who are willing to sacrifice of themselves to end it.

Protoclown · #7

And what about the innocent civilian who just happens to get caught in a bomb blast?

As for the abortion issue, Rorshach, I am still pro-life on a personal level. After a great deal of thinking however, I have realized that politically, I had to change and become pro-choice. Because I honestly believed that in certain situations (rape, where the mother would die, etc) it WAS okay, I realized that you can't have it both ways. You can't pick and choose...condone "murder" in certain situations and condemn it in others. Where does one draw the line, after all? Any distinction would have to be rather arbitrary in nature, and there will never be agreement over it. It's all or nothing, and to continue to remain wishy-washy over the issue made me a hypocrite, in my own estimation. I'm having a debate about this very thing with VinceZeb in another thread, and I'm using the same realization that I had to try to illustrate to him that there is no such thing as a black and white morality. Only in theory, not in practice. The world isn't nearly so clean or precise.

I still abhor abortion as an after-the-fact method of birth control, I find that to be an utterly vile act resulting from the worst sort of irresponsibility. HOWEVER, I believe that the law has to protect the right of other people to make their own personal choices, whether I agree with them or not. Who am I to say that abortion is okay in SOME situations but not others? What gives ME that authority? These are decisions that we each have to make for ourselves and live with the consequences.

We will NEVER know the exact moment life begins because we cannot agree on a DEFINITION of terms. Maybe it IS murdering a being with a soul, maybe it is not. It depends on when you think that being of pure potential actually becomes a real person. This is something there IS no scientific measure for, and there never will be. I only know that I would consider it horrible to doom a mother to almost certain death or force her to carry a baby that is the result of rape because of laws that make abortion illegal in ANY situation.

So I stand by the right to abortion. I may not agree with it in every circumstance, but I do not believe it is MY place to enforce my own personal definitions of life on others, or to influence their decisions.

So I would still say that I respect all human life, regardless of how you may disagree.

The_Rorschach · #8

"And what about the innocent civilian who just happens to get caught in a bomb blast? "

Collateral damage. Innocence is arbitrary, if not non-existant.

"As for the abortion issue, Rorshach, I am still pro-life on a personal level. After a great deal of thinking however, I have realized that politically, I had to change and become pro-choice."

Less than .16%, and I'll cite the statistic if need be, I have it at the top of my head because I used it recently but its somewhere in my notes and I'd have to dig, of all abortions are cited as due to rape/incest, deformation or complications. Even if this was justification enough for me to support abortion, which it isn't (at least for myself), the figures hardly make a convincing case for the practise.

"These are decisions that we each have to make for ourselves and live with the consequences. "

Its never easy to live with a grave mistake, unfortunately, abortion makes it very easy to kill with one.

I didn't mean to change the subject, or draw fire on your views. I was just trying to muddy the waters a bit. Everyone has a little blood on their hands, and the moral highground is just a matter of perspective. Iraqi's are going to die, but I know our military - They will only be killed if they fight, and hopefully, they will only fight if they support Hussein. That makes things rest a little easier in my mind.

Protoclown · #9

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

"And what about the innocent civilian who just happens to get caught in a bomb blast? "

Collateral damage. Innocence is arbitrary, if not non-existant.

I agree with you on the point of innocence, actually. Poor choice of wording on my part, I should have said "uninvolved".

Also, I am well aware of the fact that there are VERY few pregnancies that fall into those categories. No need to post any statistics, I've seen figures myself and I believe you. But in my opinion, few though they may be, the law should allow for these "exception to the rule" type cases. I don't believe there's ANY rule there aren't exceptions to.

I will NEVER turn a blind eye to abortion and simply dismiss it as something not to be concerned with. I feel sad for every single one of those aborted babies, and I have heard stories about what the mothers who make the decision to abort go through, wracked with guilt and nightmares for the rest of their lives in many cases. It is NOT a light decision for anyone, REGARDLESS of whether or not they think it is murder.

But I stand by the right for them to do it, it's a decision I reached after much consideration, I was a staunch pro-lifer for years, I didn't just turn a complete 180 overnight. Abortion makes me sad, and I think many of those who do it will regret it or be haunted by it for the rest of their lives. But the FREEDOM to choose is what makes this country so great, whether we agree with the choice or not.

Believe me, Rorshach, I'm not saying our military are a bunch of bastards for going out and killing people who have guns pointed at them. I have a lot of friends in the military, and they have my complete support. People will die in this war, I understand and accept that. But I will express and feel sadness over the loss of ALL life in this conflict, regardless of alliegiances.

The_Rorschach · #10

I'm failing to see where we're in a disagreement on anything. . .I think I'll just concede the argument now before I lose anymore ground

James · #11

The real question:

Should I even bother to click Vinnie's link? :/

Look, I don't care about the war. I don't care about soldiers dying. If I had things my way, there wouldn't even be a war. But I'm not going to protest or promote the actions taken by our country. If that makes me a bad person, than tough shit.

Think about this: In the time it took for me to write that above paragraph, how many people - out of the 6-billion in the world - died? Do you know? Do you know who they are? They're not in the news, or casualties of war, so they must not matter. If I'm going to care about people who I don't know dying, then why single out those who are newsworthy? And more to the point, if I worried about everyone and everything that dies in the world, I would have gone completely insane years ago.

You can't pick and choose. If you care about soldiers dying, why not everyone else? If it's because they're serving their country, then why do you feel the need to support those fighting in a war most of you were against? If you feel it's the patriotic thing to do, then why is it only convenient to be patriotic in times of crisis?

Like I said, I was fooled by 9/11. They're not going to make me care again.

In other words, we're all hypocrites in some way or another. But rather than trying to double-talk my way out of being one with excuses and bullshit reasons like so many people, I'd just prefer to say, "You know what? Fuck it?" (And no, that wasn't an attack on anyone to my knowledge. Just a general statement).

Protoclown · #12

How were you "fooled" by 9/11 exactly?

This isn't the same kind of thing where you were "fooled" by love, is it?

VinceZeb · #13

So basically you are saying you are a Nihilist, correct?

By your way of thinking, I could go and murder your family, and, by your own admission, you wouldn't give a shit.

Yes, people do die everyday, but most days they are not attacked by Islamic fundies via fuel loaded airplane.

If you have nothing that you would fight or die for.... you are a pretty shallow and pathetic person. I'm sorry. I wish I had the nice quote that sums it up a lot better than I could.

James · #14

Ah, so little Vinny is one of those people who don't know how to read.

Rather that try to explain myself to Ronnie Jr, I'll address Proto instead.

Proto, what I mean is, everyone "banded together" after 9/11. It seemed like it was going to last. But not long after, we started having stupid little things as people attacking Muslims in America and whatnot.

That's what I mean. I was fooled into thinking that Patriotism meant something after I saw what happened post-9/11. But then it died off rather quickly, and things turned ugly again. Patriotism is just a crock of shit, only convenient for a week or two during a crisis. So I'm just not going to buy into that shit, and just sit here talking to you guys instead of whimpering like a little bitch over some sand monkeys and rednecks shooting each other up.

VinceZeb · #15

I can read. I'm sorry that you are an idiot. If you were not a worthless bag of shit, I would respond to you like a normal person gets responded to, such as I do with others on this board.

But since your picture should be next to to the word 'worthless' in the dictionary, you are not worth the time or energy necessary to type another word about your pathetic sheeple existance.

mburbank · #16

I find it ironic that you are 'sorry' Jamesman is an idiot, and yet NOT sorry that he is a 'worthless bag of shit'.

It is you, YOU sir, who are Sheeple!

VinceZeb · #17

Yep, I'm sheeple alright.

Actually, I'm sorry for his whole easily-replaceable existance.

mburbank · #18

" But since your picture should be next to to the word 'worthless' in the dictionary, you are not worth the time or energy necessary to type another word about your pathetic sheeple existance."
- Vince"Sheeple"Zeb

VinceZeb · #19

Wow max, your just so funny and great. I'm suprised you didn't get a special Oscar last night just for being you. Because who would care if Max Burbank suddenly does not exist on the planet Earth? Everyone. The whole world would shut down, people would not go to work, the economy would tank to the Great Depression II and the cults of Max would commit mass suicide.

mburbank · #20

YOU SHEEPLE SON OF A BITCH! I'LL SHEEPLE YOU, YOU SHEEPLE SHEEPLE! SHEEPLE!

James · #21

People like Vinnie are why I tend to shy away from getting seriously involved here.

See, I was actually going for a serious response on this whole subject. But Vinnie Raygun here feels that as long as someone doesn't share his opinions, or is proven to be a complete dipshit, it is valid to respond with "your a worthless piece of shit and your existence isn't needed etc etc etc..."

Now while that's all good and fine if we were discussing what flavor jellybean is the best, it just goes to show how much of a pompous dipshit you are because you can't give any opinions that aren't copied and pasted from some obscure news website.

VinceZeb · #22

Wow, I'll have to respond since you made a halfway serious point.

Actually, the information I get my sources from are some of the highest ranking political sites, let alone sites in total, on the internet. The people I quote have spent their lives in politics and on the front lines. They also are on many different news programs and channels.

No, if you dont share my opinion, you are misinformed. If you are a complete dipshit, than you are that, but your statement led the board to believe you really dont care about the world around you. That, in my oh so humble opinion, is pathetic. If you would have never made your topic statement, I wouldn't have a reason to call you that.