Features

Vibecrewangel · #51

Waterwitch -
What do you practice?

I am curious because most people who have looked beyond the new age trend and read more than Scott Cunningham know that the stolen holidays thing is greatly exagerated.

Even Joseph Bearwalker Wilson, one of the founders of the neopagan movement, is unhappy with things.

"...I'm actually very disappointed. I had hoped that by developing a widespread Pagan movement I would discover people who would be interested in the deeper philosophies and practices with which I am familiar. Instead we have a large mass of people who think that all they need is to read a couple of newage books and they really don't have to work for anything. I'm sad. We have a 'gimmie' culture and the Pagan movement seems to have adopted the worst aspects of it, stealing or appropriating from anywhere they can and claiming 'rights' to it."

Just a curious bystander.

waterwitch · #52

you didn't "steal" any holidays at all...i just find it amusing to know that all the holidays match up...slightly weird, dont you think? it'd just be nice if both paganism and christianity had different religions that don't coincide (although it does make it easier for me living in a christian household)...

i practice lots of things...i don't know if you'd call it Wiccan, i don't even know if it's all Paganism...i believe in lots of different things...and i've read one scott cunningham book, and he seems to be writing for beginners...try reading Vivianne Crowley...both her and her husband seem to be unexhaustable on the subject of Wicca and Paganism...

i'm not one of those "gimme gimme" type people...if you dont' work for something, then it's not worth receiving at the end...i read everything that comes into my grasp...i don't just read " a few" newage books...and most of my practices are based in older traditions not just the tradtitions that have surfaced recently...

Vibecrewangel · #53

Glad to hear it.

You can never tell when someone throws the holiday rant around.
Sometimes it is sarcasm. Sometimes it is naivism. Sometimes it is stupidism.

Crowley is interesting. So was LeVey. Too bad his church got all f'd up by stupidsim.

From what you said in your last post you DO NOT practice Wicca. Wicca is not a build your own religion contrary to popular belief. It is a rather strict, not-so-old tradition that has been morphed into some strange fluffy I-don't-want-to-hurt-anyone-but-I-want-to-be-creepy-but-peacefull thing. Real Wicca ain't about that.
And Wicca don't mean witch or wise one.

Babble babble babble
And away I go

waterwitch · #54

no..wicce means wiseone...and it refers to the male sex too...so i don't see how Wicca became so feminist...

i'm just a mix of everything...i think "paganism" is just a nice quick title that sums me up quite nicely...LeVey was really interesting...his beliefs were definately something one would think upon...i mean "stupidity is the first sin"? i'm all for that...

as you said, though, shame it got fucked up...too many little whiny goth kids claiming to be 'satanists'...it backfired...

and no..it was stupidity...i just find it funny...but it makes life alot easier for those of us pagans who do have to celebrate holidays with our families...much less hassle of the two holidays over-lap...though we should have some of our own, right?

VinceZeb · #55

When the Christians became the king nuts religion of the day, they took over pagan holidas to make the transition easier to Christanity. Jesus would have been born without pagan holidays. He rose without them. It was just the way the Christian leaders went with crushing paganism.

waterwitch · #56

...somehow, i don't think the "crushing paganism" thing worked though...

Protoclown · #57

Wicca is about the second biggest bullshit religion I can think of, right after scientology.

waterwitch · #58

surprisingly enough, i agree with you....although, i'd now have to put satanism up there to compete aswell...and catholicism is defiantely one of my top "stupid" religions...

actually...when i think about it, ALL religion are under the "stupid category....

Protoclown · #59

The vast majority of organized religions make people act like fucking idiots. I've always felt that everyone should make their own self-discoveries about religion, seems to be less hostility that way for one thing.

waterwitch · #60

makes sense...all religions stem from the same place, most of the human population think that there is "something greater" out there....so if you basically make it up and believe what you want they'll be less arguments...

agree on the main points, argue on the fine ones..would make life alot easier...

Vibecrewangel · #61

Proto -
Wicca is about the same age as Scientology as well.

Real Wicca is actually a true, albiet young, religion. Gardner based it on many of the old European traditions. It is not an old tradition in and of itself.

Real Wicca is structured and has a set of guidlines/rules that must be adhered to. Just like all other religions. (Traditions don't have structure or a firm set of rules)

What most people call Wicca is actually nothing more than neo-paganism. People picking and choosing what they want from both older and newer traditions and religions. Those who practice real Wicca abhor that the name is attached to things that have nothing to do with it. Even that whole solitary practicioner thing is a great big load of poop.

Too many new age publishers (again I am forced to bash Llewellyn as they are the worst offender) tried to make things pretty and shiny and fluffy to make a buck of people who want to rebel but don't want to go to hell. Unforunately much of what the older traditions are really about has been glossed over and most of the neo-pagans don't bother to get past what they learned at the local new age bookstore or crystal shop.

Water -
Wicce did indeed mean male witch, and had an evil connotation. Wicca isn't even based on that.....go figure.

waterwitch · #62

vibe, trust me, i've been trying to figure it out...i don't even know where they got the term "wicca" from, if it wasn't from wicce...considering that wicce meant male, and wicca seems to be a female dominated religion, it doesn't seem to make much sense...

but then again, i haven't read everything there is to read on the the subject, so how would i know...?

Vibecrewangel · #63

I never bothered to look that far. I know enough about it to know what it is and isn't and a few of the broader concepts. It just never appealed to me. But then again, most religions don't appeal to me. Traditions and philosophys are more my cup of tea.

waterwitch · #64

i don't even think i have a religion..more a collection of ideas and beliefs that sort of make up my own religion..."aphraelism" or something, i don't know...

Vibecrewangel · #65

ditto

waterwitch · #66

see...? that sucks...you can get away with one word posts and when i write one sentence in s tread, someone gets fucked off....there's something strange going on...

Protoclown · #67

You keep that kind of shit up and I will start deleting your useless posts

waterwitch · #68

i don't know whether to be insulted or to feel special...

meh...i'll go with feeling special...delete away...i really don't care!

Protoclown · #69

Oh! Now what am I do to? She doesn't even give a shit! Damn, that's fucking hardcore!! I mean, you just can't even fight someone like that? What are you gonna do?? THEY DON'T CARE!!!

SHIT

waterwitch · #70

...i give a shit, but i see no point in complaining about it...you're not going to care are you? you've made your judgment on me, so i have to live with it...big deal...you're not the first person who's hated me, and you won't be the last...life's like that...

Protoclown · #71

YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I HATE YOU!!

I AM ALREADY MAKING A SPECIAL DART BOARD WITH YOUR NAME ON IT!!!

(I ACTUALLY WANTED TO DO ONE WITH YOUR FACE INSTEAD BUT I REALIZED THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE SO IF YOU COULD POSTS A PICTURE THAT WOULD SHOW YOUR FACE, PREFERABLY IN A GOOD LIGHTING, AND IF THE PICTURE SHOWS OFF YOUR 'CHUBBY CHEEKS' THAT WOULD BE BEST, IF YOU CATCH MY DRIFT, THAT WOULD BE SUPER COOL, THANKS

)

Skulhedface · #72

I'm gonna interrupt for a second, even though I do like Proto going off on people...

I find myself without a religion (I think the correct word is agnostic, but I'm unsure of the terminology) simply because if millions of people who follow just one denomination can't agree on it, how can I rely on them to be right? How can I assume that they know the real God? How can I not be sure that maybe there's a chance that the BUDDHISTS have it right, and so the Christians and Mormons and all are going to Hell (or the Buddhist equivalent) for putting their beliefs in the wrong place?

So ultimately, I find that there is no LACK of faith, just a lack of something to put that faith in, exactly. It seems like the Bible spells it out to say "You can believe, but if you get ONE LITTLE DETAIL wrong, you're going STRAIGHT TO HELL. NO PASSING GO, YOU SINNER!"

What I find myself thinking is I'll be moral, and when the time comes, I will put my faith in what I feel is the right answer. No denomination would convince me, no one person could convince me, and I feel that it is the nature of God to let you "know" when you have the right answer. How is some human going to know? Because his book told him so?

I guess it boils down to "It's not what you believe in, it's what you believe" but I still find myself confused, so I'll keep thinking it through until I believe I've found the right answer.

There's my two cents... you may now continue.

Vibecrewangel · #73

Buddhists don't have a hell.
Buddhism isn't even a religion. It's a philosophy. It's how you can have catholic buddhists.

Buddha was nothing more than a man. He said as much. He wasn't a religious leader, he was a teacher.

One of my favorite of Zen lessons is "if you see the Buddha on the road, kill him."

waterwitch · #74

...if God is supposed to be all nurturing and all forgiving i don't understand how you'd be going straight to hell for screwing up forgetting one little detail...humans have exagerated the teachings of all religions for once purpose, so THEY have control over the religion, not the deities...

...no matter what religion, there is always some middle medium which you have to go through, supposedly, if you are to attain a place in heaven/nirvana/true enlightenment e.t.c...christianity has priests...the pagans also believe in priests and priestesses, buddhism has monks...human kind has managed to mangle religion so badly that it's now fully created by man, not by god, or by miracles...

what you believe is what you believe...it's up to you, it's your choice...no other human being can tell you, "thats wrong"...there are too many religions and beliefs in the world for only one to be the true and correct answer...i just don't believe we've found the right one yet...