Freedom of religion=Freedom FROM religion??

[Immortal Goat]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

Then, Mockery, you know christians that aren't really that good.

If you have been introduced to God and Jesus Christ (and I don't mean in person, dumbasses) and you deny the divinity of the Creator or His Son, well, hell is hot and make sure you pack a icechest.

See, that's the mentality that I hate. Just because someone KNOWS about Jesus and God, and stuff like that, does NOT mean that they HAVE to believe it to be "saved". Who says that YOU are right, Vince? Who??? What if the Bible is a lie? Have you ever CONSIDERED this idea? NO?? Well, then, you are nothing but a sheep.

Religion is nothing but a form of control excercised over the so-called "saved" people to keep them in conformity, which society demands. They FEAR individuality, and therefore condemn free-thinkers.

[kahljorn]

I would find it kind of sad and ironic if God was so lonely he damned anybody who didn't believe in him. What the fuck does that matter. You're a fucking idiot if you actually think that.

When people are DIVINELY JUDGED for things they believe in and not their actual values, it's not very Divine. I know you're asking why. Why would a divine God be "Selfish" and "Arrogant"(A perfect Loving God, no less, contradictive to the first half of the bible) to only allow people who "Like and love" him into his holy land. Why would the "Cool Kids" be assholes for not letting geeks into the party. It's like mass discrimination based on some childish scheme, God wants all his blocks stacked just the way he likes, and his peaches and cream at just the right temperature, or else. OR ELSE BITCHES. SUCK MY COCK OR DIE. YOU DIDNT SUCK MY COCK. OFF TO HELL.
WHAT, YOU LIVED A REALLY GOOD LIFE, NEVER KILLED A PERSON, NEVER STOLE, LOVED CHILDREN(in a nonsexual way), NEVER TOUCHED DRUGS, DONATED 31847031874 DOLLARS TO CHARITY, SAVED THE WORLD(twice) LIKE GHANDI, AND SAVED ALL THE PUPPIES FROM THE POUND? That's great. Oh but wait, I see you don't believe in me, that ticks me off, your God and savior needs the attention and love, off to hell you go.

God's an attention whore?

[Zhukov]

See, that's the mentality that I hate. Just because someone KNOWS about Jesus and God, and stuff like that, does NOT mean that they HAVE to believe it to be "saved". Who says that YOU are right, Vince? Who??? What if the Bible is a lie? Have you ever CONSIDERED this idea? NO?? Well, then, you are nothing but a sheep.

It's the mentality that I hate as well. However, I think you are as desrving of the 'mentality' title as vince is. You argue for your team just as he does.

[Mockery]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

It's the mentality that I hate as well. However, I think you are as desrving of the 'mentality' title as vince is. You argue for your team just as he does.

Wait, is that the "internal" or the "external" mentality you're talking about?

[kahljorn]

MOCKERY'S GONNA BAN YOU INTO NEWBIE-BAN-HELL BECAUSE YOU DIDNT KISS HIS ASS

[Zero Signal]

It is truly amazing how some of you, especially kahljorn and Immortal Goat, attempt to debate about things that you have no concept of, and indeed, no practical knowledge regarding them. The posts above make that painfully evident.

You are the classic closeminded, intolerant atheist. Everyone else is stupid for believing what they do. I've known Mockery for 10 years now, and not ONCE has he told me that I was stupid for believing what I do, or placing faith in something that is invisible to human eyes and intangible to human touch. I suppose it is too much to ask that you could be as tolerant and openminded.

You place your faith in humanity. I place mine elsewhere because the flesh will fail. I believe what I believe because of something called faith, NOT what some church or religion tells me. I feel it from within, not from without; my very core of being tells me that what I believe is right for me. I do not fear death, for to me it is not and end, but a beginning.

Find your own voice and do not presume that you know more than the next person. You are no different than those that tell others that they are going to Hell for not believing.

[Immortal Goat]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

It's the mentality that I hate as well. However, I think you are as desrving of the 'mentality' title as vince is. You argue for your team just as he does.

I, however, NEVER said that MY beliefs were fact and that you HAD to accept them or something bad would happen to you.

[kahljorn]

You should respect my opinion that I hate your opinion, if you ask me.

And I didn't mean to offend you, I'm just being a jerk, it's jerk day for me. I could've said what I meant nicer. Like, I don't think God judges people based on if they believe in him or not, I think he judges them based on their actual value and what kind of life they lived. I think it even says that somewhere in the bible.

[Zero Signal]

I respect opinions when they are informed opinions. The posts above were devoid of informed theories about what you were talking about. I do not discuss advanced quantum dynamics or offer my opinions on it because I am not nearly informed enough to engage in a debate over it. The same goes for you regarding the post above.

I do agree to disagree on the point, however. I am not trying in any way to change your mind regarding it.

[WorthlessLiar]

I'll limit this religious rant to Xianity, but let me say that I have no love for Western religion in general.

I think Vinth actually does have a point here. Intolerance is, in fact, hardwired into Christianity. JC himself said that no man may cometh unto the father but by him. This inspired and justified the murders of millions over the coming centuries. It's ok if we use lethal force to make them convert because we'll be saving their souls. Now we get to use fear to reinforce our self-righteousness. Sure, one could say that the passage is not meant to be taken literally. Maybe Jesus was saying that the way to true peace is by self sacrifice and love for one another. If Jesus really intended for his words to have an impact he should have chosen them more carefully and not have provided for so much bloodshed on his behalf. Or perhaps he meant it literally which would simply make him an asshole. Additionally, mainstream Christianity in America advocates a literal interpretation of the bible (40% of Americans are creationist).

Christianity is responsible for bloody crusades, cruel persecution, and the existence of people like Vinth. I would advise those of you who are reasonable christians to simply boycott it. You can keep some of the values without attatching yourself to the institution which, in many instances, does not represent what you truly believe.

[kahljorn]

I may have said this before, and I probably have, but I think Jesus Christ was the Anti-christ by means of misconstrusion(if that's a word, trying to hint at people took what he said and misunderstood it or took it the wrong way) and corruption. I have "Scripture" to back it up, if rather slightly so!

[Zero Signal]

Originally Posted by WorthlessLiar

I think Vinth actually does have a point here. Intolerance is, in fact, hardwired into Christianity. JC himself said that no man may cometh unto the father but by him.

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same being in different forms.

This inspired and justified the murders of millions over the coming centuries. It's ok if we use lethal force to make them convert because we'll be saving their souls. Now we get to use fear to reinforce our self-righteousness.

...

Christianity is responsible for bloody crusades, cruel persecution, and the existence of people like Vinth.

Man is responsible for that, not Christianity. I do not see ANYWHERE in Christ's teachings that say to go out and torture and kill people if they do not convert.

I would advise those of you who are reasonable christians to simply boycott it. You can keep some of the values without attatching yourself to the institution which, in many instances, does not represent what you truly believe.

I think I come closer to agreeing with you on that part. I discarded organized religion about 7 years ago because the church is full of old thought, and highly unlikely to foster any change.[/b]

[Protoclown]

Originally Posted by Zero Signal

Proto brought up something that reminded me of something.
According to the Bible, Hell is not necessarily "fire and brimstone".

It is technically eternal seperation from God, whatever form that may take.

Damn right, Zero. I'm tired of hearing all this "lake of fire" shit.

[kahljorn]

And I was hoping to get some Fried fish from those lakes.. I bet that's where Long John Silvers gets their fish from.

[AChimp]

During an e-mail debate with a bunch of Christian fundamentalist-types, we eventually came to this topic of Hell and believing in Jesus keeping you from Hell.

I asked, what about all the other hundreds of religions that say YOU are going to the bad place for not believing them? Well, they said, those religions are just as valid as Christianity, because Christianity teaches us to be accepting. But, Christianity is the only "true" religion.

Right, I said. So why do you go around trying to convert people if their beliefs are just as valid as yours? "We believe we are helping them see the real truth."

Stupified by this, I asked them how they could view someone else's different beliefs as valid, yet still feel that the "valid belief" is not the correct one. By trying to convert someone, you are basically only paying lip service to the validity of their religion, while attempting to cram yours down their throat... No answer.

Such is the paradox of Christianity. :/

[Immortal Goat]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

And I was hoping to get some Fried fish from those lakes.. I bet that's where Long John Silvers gets their fish from.

I wouldn' t be surprised at all. THEY are the reason I hate seafood. In fact, my doubting of a god is also because of Long John Silvers. If there WERE a just and loving god, He wouldn't let that sort of place exist!!

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by AChimp

I asked, what about all the other hundreds of religions that say YOU are going to the bad place for not believing them?

That question alone sums up why I'm agnostic.

[Vibecrewangel]

Me too
Me too

[CaptainBubba]

Simple mathmatics tells us that anything falling into the category of "metaphysical" is not worth believing in. As "god's" nature is not known by any human, nor could it ever be, as it is beyond our physical comprehension by the very nature of its design, no one can tell you what god actually is, or what an afterlife would be composed of if it does in fact exist.

The probability of any religion or spiritual idea being correct is 1/ infinity, which is approximately equivalent to 0.

Even if a massive hand were to reach forth from the heavens and speak of salvation through a given path, what is to tell us that this is not some deception by "god's" twin brother, Tim, who is the prince of beastiality and seashells?

The excuse that "god is beyond out comprehension" is a two way road, as it means we, not even in our supposed afterlives will know what the flying fuck is going on. On the other hand, if god is within our comprehension, then eventually it could be proven or disproven.

Religion is good for making small children behave and serving as a comfort to those unable to cope with the harsh and cold idea of oblivion.

I myself am not mentally capable of believing because I think too much. Not one theory, statement, or observation regarding religion has ever given me a reason to beleive in anything besides the physical world I percieve around me.

I made a comic about this thats actually my favorite one I've made, but stripcreator's down.

[Immortal Goat]

Wow, my entire thought pattern summed up in a nice short post. Thank you CaptainBubba, I salute you for being your own man.

[ziggytrix]

"The probability of any religion or spiritual idea being correct is 1/ infinity, which is equivalent to 0."

One divided by infinity is approximately equivalent to 0. It is not actually 0. This is especially fallacious in describing a probabilty, which no matter how small, is still significant if not equal to zero.

[CaptainBubba]

For all intesive math purposes its usually just considered 0. But to be fair I edited it. Sorry if you find what I said misleading. And in the context of the metaphysical world it really isn't signifigant, but I do agree with you.

The fact remains that because there are infinite possibilities, stating that you know which one is correct is proposterous, highly arrogant, and ignorant.

[AChimp]

Even if a massive hand were to reach forth from the heavens and speak of salvation through a given path, what is to tell us that this is not some deception by "god's" twin brother, Tim, who is the prince of beastiality and seashells?

Again, I've mentioned this before, but there's no way to tell "God" apart from a technologically advanced alien (I think it was Carl Sagan who proposed this originally). If God came down to Earth tomorrow, any miracles that he might perform could potentially be attributed to a piece of technology that we have no understanding of. It could even be a biological feature that allows him to manipulate matter and is particular to his race (a la energy beings from Star Trek or something).

The excuse that "god is beyond out comprehension" is a two way road, as it means we, not even in our supposed afterlives will know what the flying fuck is going on. On the other hand, if god is within our comprehension, then eventually it could be proven or disproven.

I think that if humans survive long enough, we will eventually know everything, or at least enough to say that we know everything compared to what we know right now. Might take millions of years, but whatever.

There's nothing that humans can't understand eventually.

[ziggytrix]

No, no, no. In the context of the metaphysical it IS significant. Surely it is as significant as the probablity of life generating from crude matter on a previously lifeless planet. Which, while being incredibly small, is indeed not zero.

Is it any less arrogant to say "there is no god" than to say "my notion of god is better than yours"?

[Immortal Goat]

As Morpheus said...
"Free your mind."

Wouldn't that be a complete mind-job if the Matrix was real and God was nothing but a highly intelligent computer mainframe?

just thought I'd throw that in there...