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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 11:27 AM        Iraqis PRO war. .... .and get this....PRO Bush.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81784,00.html

'Saddam Is Done,' Marines Exult in Captured Town

Friday, March 21, 2003

SAWFAN, Iraq — U.S. Marines hauled down giant street portraits of Saddam Hussein in a screeching pop of metal and bolts Friday, telling nervous residents of this southern Iraqi town that "Saddam is done."

Milling crowds of men and boys watched as the Marines attached ropes on the front of their Jeeps to one portrait and then backed up, peeling the Iraqi leader's black-and-white metal image off a frame. Some locals briefly joined Maj. David "Bull" Gurfein in a new cheer.

"Iraqis! Iraqis! Iraqis!" Gurfein yelled, pumping his fist in the air.

"We wanted to send a message that Saddam is done," said Gurfein, a New York native in the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. "People are scared to show a lot of emotion. That's why we wanted to show them this time we're here, and Saddam is done."

The Marines arrived in Safwan, just across the Kuwait border, after Cobra attack helicopters, attack jets, tanks, 155 mm howitzers and sharpshooters cleared the way along Route 80, the main road into Iraq.

Safwan, 375 miles south of Baghdad, is a poor, dirty, wrecked town pocked by shrapnel from the last Gulf war. Iraqi forces in the area sporadically fired mortars and guns for hours Thursday and Friday. Most townspeople hid, although residents brought forth a wounded little girl, her palm bleeding after the new fighting. Another man said his wife was shot in the leg by the Americans.

A few men and boys ventured out, putting makeshift white flags on their pickup trucks or waving white T-shirts out truck windows.

"Americans very good," Ali Khemy said. "Iraq wants to be free."

Some chanted, "Ameriki! Ameriki!"

Many others in the starving town just patted their stomachs and raised their hands, begging for food.

A man identifying himself only as Abdullah welcomed the arrival of the U.S. troops: "Saddam Hussein is no good. Saddam Hussein a butcher."

An old woman shrouded in black -- one of the very few women outside -- knelt toward the feet of Americans, embracing an American woman. A younger man with her pulled her away, giving her a warning sign by sliding his finger across his throat.

In 1991, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died after prematurely celebrating what they believed was their liberation from Saddam after the Gulf War. Some even pulled down a few pictures of Saddam then -- only to be killed by Iraqi forces.

Gurfein playfully traded pats with a disabled man and turned down a dinner invitation from townspeople.

"Friend, friend," he told them in Arabic learned in the first Gulf War.

"We stopped in Kuwait that time," he said. "We were all ready to come up there then, and we never did."

The townspeople seemed grateful this time.

"No Saddam Hussein!" one young man in headscarf told Gurfein. "Bush!"
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 11:38 AM       
I think the signficance of this article is undeniable. I Particularly like the part where 'nervous' iraqis 'briefly' join an armed representative of the US army on a bullhorn in a chant.

After 25 years of Bath Parrty rule, I think these folk know when tthey're supposed to chant.

Naldo, I don't deny for a moment that a signficant portion of the population may be pleased to see the Americans come and saddam go. The longer we put off Shock and Awe, the longer they may feel kindly disposed to us.
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 12:19 PM       
Seems like "Shock and Awe" is in full effect as of now.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 12:26 PM       
Really?

I was hoping it wouldn't come to that.

Hopefully it won't last long.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 02:15 PM       
Do ends justify the means?

Of course people will cheer his demise. I would/will, too. But the people killed (accidentally or not) by bombs, buried under rubble presumably won't be out cheering.

If a cop breaks the law to catch a murderer, we applaud the arrest, but we question the tactics. Same logic applies here.

And Max makes a valid point: . "'Saddam is our hero,' said one, before adding quickly, 'for today.'" (Washington Post, Oct. 21, 2002). This was after Saddam released a bunch of prisoners back in October. These people have lived a life of obedience, knowing when to talk, when not to, etc.

I believe their sincerity, however. Those who will live through "shock and awe" will feel like a million bux the day it's all over.
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ItalianStereotype ItalianStereotype is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 02:33 PM       
shock and awe has been going on all morning. thats why husseins palace on the tigris is nothing but rubble now.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 02:36 PM       
I saw some pictures, haven't read too much, though. I'd rather not. Any estimates on death tolls as of yet?
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GAsux GAsux is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 02:41 PM        Perhaps
It's certainly too early to tell but I'm willing to bet that the mass civilian casualties predictions will fall well short of the levels some are espousing. "Shock and awe" does not necessarily guarantee large numbers of civilian casualties.

I think you might be suprised how precise many of these stirkes have been/will be. I'm not trying to say that there will be no civilian casualties nor marginalize the death that goes along with war. I'm simply pointing out that I personally don't believe there will be a huge outpouring of civilian deaths.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 02:44 PM       
I'm sure our technology is the best, but in a city of roughly 5 million, I'd imagine it'd be hard not to kill people....
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GAsux GAsux is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 02:55 PM        Word
I agree. It is hard. I am quite positive there will be some. The concussion alone from blasts will likely blow out windows, etc.

My point is, there seems to be the perception that air strikes will automatically result in huge numbers of mass civilian casualties. You know, the argument that Iraqis will hate us as well because we are committing a genocidal air campaign against them.

I think this is a faulty assumption.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 02:58 PM       
It may not be angry Iraqis we have to worry about, though.

Protests are heating up all around the Middle East.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 21st, 2003, 04:24 PM       
I think we shgould have stuck with our "Awe Shucks" strategy.
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