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  #1  
theapportioner theapportioner is offline
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:25 AM        Edward Said: The Other America
http://www.counterpunch.org/said03222003.html
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:03 PM       
Just a small bit of advice: If you want liberal views to be looked at and respected, please... PLEASE don’t reference Said, Zinn, or Chomsky. These people have been proven time and time again to be liars and out of touch of reality. I'll read anything that my political opposition says but come on.... serious.


I love counterpunch. Especially the 100% union labor clothes. Because as we all know, unions are the greatest thing ever in society. Especially since they bankrupt the airline industry.
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ranxer ranxer is offline
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:38 PM       
Bwhaha, slander and lies are the only thing that's ever been aimed at Zinn and Chomsky .. repeating that they have been discredited does not make it true.. i havnt heard any 'credible' sources say much against them, just rush limbaugh wannabe's spouting what you said.. 'they're discredited' they don't often go into anything more than that.
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:52 PM       
If you actually researched both sides of the argument, you would find out that yes, they have been dismissed as moronic. Hell, even Chomsky's doctorate should be taken back because of the junk science he used to get it in linquistics.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:56 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
Just a small bit of advice: If you want liberal views to be looked at and respected, please... PLEASE don’t reference Said, Zinn, or Chomsky. These people have been proven time and time again to be liars and out of touch of reality. I'll read anything that my political opposition says but come on.... serious.
This coming from a guy who has cited Rush Limbaugh.

Look, Said is a bit extreme for my taste, but like others, he has the intelligence and strong writing ability to make very valid points and observations.

Zinn: Yeah, a New Leftist, but knows his history.

Chomsky: Similar to Said, but I feel that for what Chomsky lacks in personal theory, he makes up for in data and numbers. You get a perspective that few others will talk about, mainly because they refuse to, or can't.
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Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 01:17 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
Just a small bit of advice: If you want liberal views to be looked at and respected, please... PLEASE don’t reference Said, Zinn, or Chomsky. These people have been proven time and time again to be liars and out of touch of reality. I'll read anything that my political opposition says but come on.... serious.


I love counterpunch. Especially the 100% union labor clothes. Because as we all know, unions are the greatest thing ever in society. Especially since they bankrupt the airline industry.
hmm. How is Chomsky a liar and out of touch?
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 02:29 PM       
Well, I'll bring up the main point about good ol' Noam: His doctorate is in question because of the junk science he used to get his PH.D in linqustics

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=1020 - an example of Noam after 9/11

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=1018 -

the second part

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=5843 -
Just another little tidbig on Noamie

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=6135 -
And another

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=6689 -
A bit on the failed linquistics of Noam

And thats enough for right now. Got them all from the same site but different authors published them.


whoops, for got this one: http://www.techcentralstation.com/10...D=1051-062602C
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 02:58 PM       
David Horowitz holds little credibility, considering the way his views on things have flip flopped around. He is OBSESSED with Noam Chomsky.

I only read his article, will read the others later, though.
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Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 01:21 AM       
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Chomskyites who read "The Sick Mind of Noam Chomsky (Part I)" have complained that "there is not one single comment …that contradicts Chomsky’s research." Consequently, my refutation of Chomsky was not achieved "by reasoned argument or detailing the errors of fact or logic in his writings and statements, but by character assassination and the trivializing of Chomsky’s strongly held beliefs through accusations that they were unpatriotic."

I confess to being a little puzzled by this objection. Having described Chomsky’s equation of post-World War II America with Nazi Germany, it did not actually occur to me that additional refutation was required. Not, at any rate, among the sound of mind. It is true, on the other hand -- as will become apparent in this sequel -- that the adulators of Chomsky share a group psychosis with millions of others who formerly worshipped pre-Chomskyites, like Lenin, Stalin, and other Marxist worthies, as geniuses of the progressive faith.
Now while I do not agree with everything Chomsky believes, (and certainly not his comparison of post WWII America to Nazi Germany!), accusing people who defend him of having a "group psychosis" is just as bad as Chomsky's highly exagerated comparison.

Quote:
The Communist catastrophes can have "nothing to do with the values of the left" because if they did the left would have to answer for its deeds and confront the fact that it is morally and intellectually bankrupt. Progressives would have to face the fact that they killed 100 million people for nothing -- for an idea that didn’t work.
I too disagree with the statement that Communism had "nothing to do" with the left. But to claim that the left is "morally and intellectually bankrupt" because of what the Communists did is ridiculous. Should we hold the extreme right responsible for the atrocites of the Fascists?

While I do believe that this man does have legitmate criticisms of Chomsky, his overall goal appears not to be pointing out flaws in Chomsky's thesises, but rather smearing both Chomsky and the left as a whole.

Chomsky, like all the rest of us, is not to be placed above criticism. But dismissing everything he has to say based soley on certain flaws in his writings isn't right.
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GAsux GAsux is offline
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 02:08 AM        SAT Redux....
Chomsky is to Limbaugh.....


What Ranxer is to Ronnie.
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 09:49 AM       
David Horowitz is a great example for information. Dude, he used to be THE man when it came to the vietnam war opposition. He was one of the grandfathers of the current leftist movement. Fuck, the guy was a Black Panther or had deep association with them. He changed his views after he saw what the left did. Hell, so did Tammy Bruce, the chick that used to lead up NOW.

Amazing however how you dont hear about major right-wing guys that actually did something turn left.
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Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:17 AM       
[quote="VinceZeb"] He changed his views after he saw what the left did. quote]

Thats like being a Christian and turning atheist because of people like Fred Phelps.
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VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 11:28 AM       
Yes and no. Christians who turn atheists were usually not real good Christians to begin with. But I regonize and agree somewhat with the point.
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