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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 11:01 AM        Could Bush be impeached?
Not gonna happen, but hey, if Streisand is for it then there must be some momentum for this.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Com..._18_05_MK.html

November 18, 2005

Will Democratic Charges That Bush 'Lied' Lead To His Impeachment?
By Mort Kondracke

The 2006 election is shaping up to be a bitterly fought referendum on President Bush - to the point where, if Democrats win, they just might impeach him.

The "I-word" so far is mainly tossed around in the left-wing blogosphere: Barbra Streisand is calling for impeachment on her Web site, for example, as is an unofficial "progressive" site called Democrats.com. But Democratic accusations that Bush lied to get the United States into the Iraq war would seem to lead logically to demands for his removal from office.

The level of venom infusing the Iraq debate, already toxic, has escalated in the past few days as Bush defends himself against charges of lying and Democrats accuse him of "smearing" them and questioning their patriotism.

On Monday, for example, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) charged that Bush "dishonored America's veterans and those serving today" by playing "attack politics" in a Veterans Day speech.

In the speech, Bush quoted Kerry, before he voted for the Iraq war, as saying that Saddam Hussein's "deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction is a threat, and a great threat, to our national security." Bush added that it is "irresponsible" for Democrats to "rewrite the history" of how the United States went to war.

He said that the Democrats' "baseless attacks send the wrong signal to our troops and an enemy that is questioning our will." Kerry accused Bush of charging that Democrats were "unpatriotic." Kerry also asserted that Bush did not rely on faulty intelligence before the war, "as Democrats did," but waged "a concerted campaign to twist the intelligence to justify a war (he) had already decided to fight."

And, said Kerry, "How are the same Republicans who tried to impeach a president over whether he misled a nation about an affair going to pretend it does not matter if the administration intentionally misled the country into war?"

So, here we have the 2004 Democratic presidential candidate using the I-word in an attack on Bush, albeit indirectly. I'd bet it was a trial balloon, designed to get the idea out on the table without having to accept responsibility for actually recommending it.

The idea has been floated previously by some House liberals. Last month, Congressional Quarterly reported that Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) said it "would be an impeachable offense" if evidence proved that Bush or Vice President Cheney authorized aides to mislead lawmakers.

In June, Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee, held a mock impeachment inquiry based on the "Downing Street memo" that claimed Bush had made up his mind to go to war even as he was saying that Hussein could still come into compliance with United Nations resolutions.

Kerry repeated that allegation on Monday in the course of charging that "the war in Iraq was and remains one of the great acts of misleading and deception in American history."

Newspapers also have quoted Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-N.Y.) as saying that "this administration has committed more impeachable offenses than any other government in history" and Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) as saying that "lying to the Congress about a large public purpose such as Iraq" fit the constitutional test of "high crimes and misdemeanors" better than lying about sex, the offense that led Republicans to impeach former President Bill Clinton.

To be sure, no party leader has mentioned impeachment, but it's clear that Democrats are eagerly searching for "smoking guns" - positive proof that Bush deceived Congress and/or that Cheney helped leak the name of CIA operative Valerie Plame, wife of Bush critic Joseph Wilson.

The "special investigations division" of the minority staff of the House Government Reform Committee has produced a 30-page report alleging that in 125 appearances before the war, Bush, Cheney and other top officials "made 11 misleading statements about the urgency of Iraq's threat, 81 misleading statements about Iraq's nuclear activities, 84 misleading statements about Iraq's chemical and biological capabilities and 61 misleading statements about Iraq's relationship with al Qaeda."

In response to Bush's assertions, backed by voluminous citations, that Democrats, too, looked at U.S. intelligence and declared that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, Democrats have shifted ground, declaring either that Bush had privileged information or purposely denied Congress evidence conflicting with his assertions.

The GOP response to that has been to accuse Democrats of partisanship - of accepting Clinton administration WMD assertions as true while now challenging Bush's. Some Republicans also are producing evidence to rebut charges that Bush withheld evidence that would have disproved his WMD claims.

Regardless of whether Democrats ever file articles of impeachment, it's now almost inevitable that Bush will be Topic A in the 2006 election, much as Clinton was in the 1994 and 1998 off-year elections.

In 1994, Republicans capitalized on the collapse of Clinton's health care agenda to win a net 52 House seats and regain control of both houses of Congress for the first time in 40 years. But in 1998, even though Clinton's approval rating descended as low as 39 percent after disclosures that he lied about his affair with Monica Lewinsky, Democrats gained five House seats after Republicans forecast that they would impeach him after the election - as they did.

"We overplayed our hand," said Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.), who later became chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee. "The Democrats had better watch out that they don't do the same."

So far, Democrats are at the edge of overplaying their hand. They are riding a wave of popular distrust with Bush's war policy, and they're doing everything possible to boost it. This week, as Senate Minority leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) was interpreting the Senate as having cast a "vote of no confidence" in Bush's war policy, his spokesman, Jim Manley, declared that "the contrast between Democrats and Republicans could not be clearer.

"On the same day that Senate Democrats outlined a path for success in Iraq, Republicans launched another round of misleading smears in order to improve their fortunes," he said. Manley told me he had heard no discussion among Democratic Senators about impeaching Bush. But the level of contempt for Bush among Democrats certainly rivals that among Republicans for Clinton. If they think they have a "smoking gun," I doubt Democrats can restrain themselves.

Mort Kondracke is the Executive Editor of Roll Call.
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 11:33 AM       
As much as it would overjoy me to see bush impeached, there are two very unlikely things that need to happen to make that possible:

1: the democrats have to actually win the house and senate back, and by a reasonably large majority.

2: the democrats need to grow some balls.



I dont really think either will happen. But it's the only thing that could really restore any integrity to american politics.
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 11:43 AM       
if there were incontravertable evidence that bush lied, he would be impeached. even by a republican senate.

that evidence could not exist. i am quite certain. even if bush lied, there's a good chance he thought he was telling the truth.
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 11:47 AM       
The only reason people even feel comfortable throwing the "I word" out there is because 2006, according to most indicators, is shaping up to be a battle. One of the top Republican pollsters in DC has said that because a lot of really good Republican candidates might sit it out in 2006 out of fear of retribution, the Democrats have been ahead of the game in recruiting solid candidates for House seats.

For one of my classes, we need to write a winning campaign plan for the incumbent, Republican Congresswoman in NM-1. It's going to be hard, because the Democrats are going to run a national campaign (like "the contract") on gas prices, Iraq, and corruption, whereas incumbent Republicans will probably try to localize their races. It may not work.

If the Democrats romp in 2006, which certainly isn't a guarantee, then the "I word" will certainly be on the table.
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 11:52 AM       
If Bush is impeached, wouldn't Cheney take over? And wouldn't that be, like, really bad?
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 12:06 PM       
Quote:
If Bush is impeached, wouldn't Cheney take over? And wouldn't that be, like, really bad?
You're right, keeping darth Cheney out of office is a major reason not to do it.

Although at this point it looks like theres more of a case for booting the dark lord then there is for booting bush.


If they impeach them both doesn't it go to the house majority leader? If that happened it would probably be a democrat and they'd be more than happy to impeach them both, gaining the white house in the process.

of course the republicans would just scream and cry about it being a partisan coup, which of course would be accurate.
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 12:08 PM       
If he's impeached all that means is that he has had charges brought against him.

If he's convicted, then Article 2, section 4 of the Constitution requires that the President, Vice President, and all civil officers, must be removed from office if they are impeached, and then convicted of, "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 12:15 PM       
Ok, so who takes over the white house then?


I know if a president dies or steps down it goes to VP, then house leader, etc...


but if impeached and convicted what happens? Is there an election, or is the house supposed to appoint someone?
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 12:19 PM       
Alexander Haig.
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 12:26 PM       
Current order of succession for the office of PotUS and history of Presidential succession - google'd quicker than it took me to write this sentence and paste a link.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html

lol @ kevin, even tho I had to google the name to figure out the joke. :/
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 12:29 PM       
I am extremely uncomfortable with how high on that list condi rice and Uncle Rummy are... :/
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 01:18 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
Alexander Haig.
I'm in control, here......

I'd forgotten about that little blunder.....
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 06:41 PM       
Quote:
For one of my classes, we need to write a winning campaign plan for the incumbent, Republican Congresswoman in NM-1. It's going to be hard, because the Democrats are going to run a national campaign (like "the contract") on gas prices, Iraq, and corruption, whereas incumbent Republicans will probably try to localize their races. It may not work.
Atleast, you hope thats what the Democrats will try. They would need to form a united front to do that with a true leader to rally around.

Who is that leader?

Also, about Bush being impeached over why we went into Iraq, remember certain top Dems who were on commitees that saw all the same intel he did signed off on the invasion.

That would really come back to bite them in the ass.
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Old Nov 18th, 2005, 08:16 PM       
but their whole argument is they didn't see they same intel - they only saw the parts of it that favored invasion, while parts that compromised credibility were left out. at least, that's what i thought they were saying.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Nov 19th, 2005, 01:30 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Blanco
Atleast, you hope thats what the Democrats will try. They would need to form a united front to do that with a true leader to rally around.
The Democrats are never ones to take advantage of an opportunity, you're right.

However, this election cycle might not need that iconoclast-type leader, like a Gingrich. The "Revolution" Republicans didn't really have as many situational things to go with, we weren't bogged down overseas, i don't recall(?) gas prices being so high, and i don't believe we had reached the stage in the Clinton administration where all the scandal and impeachment stuff had really become huge.



Quote:
Also, about Bush being impeached over why we went into Iraq, remember certain top Dems who were on commitees that saw all the same intel he did signed off on the invasion.
Yeah, I think Ziggy is right about this. The argument will be that only a select number of Democrats in Congress really got to vet through all of the documents, and that yes, what they saw was selective.

I have no idea how true that is.
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Old Nov 19th, 2005, 04:45 PM       
In addition to this, there isn't much "hoping" that a national tactic will be their attempt. I can guarantee you that that's the plan, it's just a matter of whether or not it'll work.
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