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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 02:13 PM       
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 02:16 PM       
Eh, no big deal thanks for the effort, JMHX.

"Those links are really the first I ever heard of Kerry REALLY being excommunicated. I'll have to look into that, I think that would've made bigger news than just a Catholic paper and the dispatch. "

I doubt he was actually ex-communicated, like I said this issue always comes up at election time and only at election time. I think it even happened with Gore and Clinton ;/ The story usually disipates not long after that. I remember hearing about it originally on fox news or something, though.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 02:17 PM       
It always comes up for Democrats anyway.

It gets really sticky for Catholic Democrats, and I think an unfortunate precedent was set in 2004 with Kerry.
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 02:30 PM       
I know there was some uproar with Kennedy, but is there any evidence that it ever reached the point of media circus that it did with Kerry in 2004?
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 02:33 PM       
Not that I can recall. It's always an issue when Catholics run, just look at JFK.

But what we saw with kerry was different. It was a deliberate effort by Republicans to push/guilt/whatever the American Catholic Church into condemning Kerry, all for political gains. I find that troubling.
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Old Jul 25th, 2006, 02:49 PM       
"I like Cuomo, he's an intellectual who had a hard time figuring out how to be a politician. I actually just had to write a tediously long paper on one of his races, so bleh. "

I agree that he's an intellectual, I love his stances. Like when he talks about the seperation between what we believe is morally right and wrong and the laws that may be developed based on it, and how those laws themselves have political, economical and social ramifications that we can't necessarily resolve or understand by morality alone. That we should analyze what laws we're going to create, because they will actually have a REAL LIFE EFFECT that has absolutely nothing to do with morality itself. Seems realistic, to me.
The idea that politics and laws of the governing body actually shape the intellectual and moral bodies of it's populace, to me, should be the forefront to all forms of government. What does a government govern? A nation. What is a nation? A bunch of people. The reason government was established was to protect these people, and furnish a functioning establishment- through economy, morality, philosophy and whatever means are necessary to preserve their lives and functional, happy, existence. Isn't that what everything boils down to, really? Trying to survive? Everything after the effect just has to do with the extent of comfort involved in life, and the desire for society to become "perfect".
In some senses morality itself could be said to be society's struggle to survive. What is good for society is deemed moral, those things that are non-destructive and perpetuate a reverence for life and a shedding of our animalistic tendencies. Whereas what's immoral is those actions that are bad for society, what is selfish, animalistic and inherently "Natural", what will make ME survive best? The line between morality, in some ways, lies between survival of society and survival of the individual, prosperity of society versus instinctual preservation and glorification of the self.

"In some cases people might have been forced to go elsewhere to have abortions and that might have eased a few consciences, but it wouldn’t have done what the church wants to do—it wouldn’t have created a deep-seated respect for life. Abortions would have gone on, millions of them."
That's a pretty beautiful statement.

"Better than any law or rule or threat of punishment would be the moving strength of our own good example, demonstrating our lack of hypocrisy, proving the beauty and worth of our instruction."

Everything before that statement was great, but I thought that summed it up pretty nicely.

"We should understand that whether abortion is outlawed or not, our work has barely begun: the work of creating a society where the right to life doesn’t end at the moment of birth, where an infant isn’t helped into a world that doesn’t care if it’s fed properly, housed decently, educated adequately, where the blind or retarded child isn’t condemned to exist rather than empowered to live"

"We come together in worship as companions, in the ancient sense of the word, those who break bread together, and who are obliged by the commitment we share to help one another, everywhere, in all we do and, in the process, to help the whole human family. We see our mission to be “the completion of the work of creation.”"


Anyway sorry for the quotes i just enjoyed them alot.
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