Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Feb 10th, 2004, 10:06 PM        I've said it before, and I'll say it again.......
............Scott Ritter was right.


http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0206-06.htm

Published on Friday, February 6, 2004 by the International Herald Tribune

Not Everyone Got it Wrong on Iraq's Weapons
by Scott Ritter

'We were all wrong," David Kay, the Bush administration's former top weapons sleuth in Iraq, recently told members of Congress after acknowledging that there were probably no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Kay insisted that the blame for the failure to find any such weapons lay with the U.S. intelligence community, which, according to Kay, provided inaccurate assessments.

The Kay remarks appear to be an attempt to spin potentially damaging data to the political advantage of President George W. Bush.

The president's decision to create an "independent commission" to investigate this intelligence failure only reinforces this suspicion, since such a commission would only be given the mandate to examine intelligence data, and not the policies and decision-making processes that made use of that data. More disturbing, the commission's findings would be delayed until late fall, after the November presidential election.

The fact, independent of the findings of any commission, is that not everyone was wrong.

I, for one, was not. I did my level best to demand facts from the Bush administration to back up their allegations regarding Iraq's WMD and, failing that, spoke out and wrote in as many forums as possible in an effort to educate the publics of the United States and the world about the danger of going to war based on a hyped-up threat.

In this I was not alone. Rolf Ekeus, the former head of the UN weapons inspectors in Iraq, has declared that under his direction, Iraq was "fundamentally disarmed" as early as 1996. Hans Blix, who headed UN weapons inspections in Iraq in the months before the invasion in March 2003, stated that his inspectors had found no evidence of either WMD or WMD-related programs in Iraq. And officials familiar with Iraq, like Ambassador Joseph Wilson and State Department intelligence analyst Greg Theilmann, both exposed the unsustained nature of the Bush claims regarding Iraq's nuclear capability.

The riddle surrounding Iraq's WMD was solvable without resorting to war. For all the layers of deceit and obfuscation, there existed enough basic elements of truth and substantive fact about the disposition of Saddam Hussein's secret weapons programs to permit the Gordian knot to be cleaved by anyone willing to try. Sadly, it seems that there was no predisposition on the part of those assigned the task of solving the riddle to do so.

Bush's decision to limit the scope of any inquiry to intelligence matters, effectively blocking any critique of his administration's use - or abuse - of such intelligence, is absurd, especially when one considers that the Bush administration was already talking of war with Iraq in 2002, prior to the preparation of a National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) - the defining document on a particular area of the world or specified threat - by the director of Central Intelligence.

According to a Department of Defense after-action report on Iraq titled "Operation Iraqi Freedom: Strategic Lessons Learned," a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Times in September 2003, "President Bush approved the overall war strategy for Iraq in August last year." The specific date cited was Aug. 29, 2002 - eight months before the first bomb was dropped.

The CIA did eventually produce a National Intelligence Estimate for Iraq, but only in October 2002, after Bush had already decided on war. The title of the NIE, "Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction," is reflective of a predisposition that was not supported either by the facts available at the time, or by the passage of time.

Stu Cohen, a 28-year veteran of the CIA, wrote in a statement published on the CIA Web site on Nov. 28, 2003, that the Oct. 2002 National Intelligence Estimate "judged with high confidence that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles in excess of the 150-kilometer limit imposed by the UN Security Council. … These judgments were essentially the same conclusions reached by the United Nations and a wide array of intelligence services - friendly and unfriendly alike."

Cohen said the October NIE was "policy neutral" - meaning it did not propose a policy that argued either for or against going to war. He also stated that no one who worked on the NIE had been pressured by the Bush White House.

Cohen is wrong in his assertions. The fact that a major policy decision like war with Iraq was made without the benefit of an NIE is, in and of itself, policy manipulation.

I worked with Cohen on numerous occasions during this time, and consider him a reasonable man. So I had to wonder when this intelligence professional, confronted with the totality of the failure of the CIA to accurately assess the WMD threat, wrote that he was "convinced that no reasonable person could have viewed the totality of the information that the intelligence community had at its disposal - literally millions of pages - and reached any conclusions or alternative views that were profoundly different from those that we reached."

I consider myself also to be a reasonable person. Like Cohen and the intelligence professionals who prepared the October 2002 NIE, I was intimately familiar with vast quantities of intelligence data collected from around the world by numerous foreign intelligence services (including the CIA) and on the ground in Iraq by UN weapons inspectors, at least until the time of my resignation from Unscom in August 1998. Based on this experience, I was asked by Arms Control Today, the journal of the Arms Control Association, to write an article on the status of disarmament regarding Iraq's WMD.

The article, "The Case for Iraq's Qualitative Disarmament," was published in June 2000 and received broad coverage. Its conclusions were dismissed by the intelligence communities of the United States and Britain. But my finding - that "because of the work carried out by Unscom, it can be fairly stated that Iraq was qualitatively disarmed at the time inspectors were withdrawn [in December 1998]" - was an accurate assessment of the disarming of Iraq's WMD capabilities, much more so than the CIA's October NIE or any corresponding analysis carried out by British intelligence services.

I am not alone in my analysis. Ray McGovern, who heads a group called Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, or VIPS, also takes umbrage at Cohen's "no reasonable person" assertion. "Had he taken the trouble to read the op-eds and other issuances of VIPs members over the past two years," McGovern told me, he would have found that "our writings consistently contained conclusions and alternative views that were indeed profoundly different - even without having had access to what Stu calls the 'totality of the information.' And Stu never indicated he thought us not 'reasonable' - at least back when many of us worked with him at CIA."

The fact is that McGovern and I, together with scores of intelligence professionals, retired or still in service, who studied Iraq and its WMD capabilities, are reasonable men. We got it right.

The Bush administration, in its rush to war, ignored our advice and the body of factual data we used, and instead relied on rumor, speculation, exaggeration and falsification to mislead the American people and their elected representatives into supporting a war that is rapidly turning into a quagmire. We knew the truth about Iraq's WMD. Sadly, no one listened.

The writer was chief UN inspector in Iraq from 1991 to 1998 and is the author of "Frontier Justice: Weapons of Mass Destruction and the Bushwhacking of America."

Copyright © 2004 the International Herald Tribune

###
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
Senior Member
Ronnie Raygun's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia United States of America
Ronnie Raygun is probably a spambot
Old Feb 10th, 2004, 10:25 PM       
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...91722-8355rOld arrest could silence Iraq arms expert
Published 1/22/2003 10:57 PM
View printer-friendly version


ALBANY, N.Y., Jan. 22 (UPI) -- Former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter confirmed media reports on Wednesday that he had appeared in an Albany, N.Y. court concerning an arrest in an Internet sex sting.

Ritter said he had been scheduled to be in Baghdad, Iraq to advise the Iraqis on how to avert war but instead he stayed in Albany talking about his old arrest.

"The case was dismissed. Therefore, it never happened," Ritter told WNYT-TV. "I stood in a court of law, before a judge and an assistant district attorney with my wife at my side, and they dismissed it. I am deeply saddened. Not by anything I've done, though."

Media reports earlier this week about Ritter's arrest in June 2001 have drowned out his comments about a possible war with Iraq.

Ritter told WTEN-TV that all the media attention stinks and that the individual who had leaked the arrest was far more guilty than he was. He added that he had a lot of credibility and was the leading voice of opposition to a possible war with Iraq -- but that he didn't know if the reports of the arrest would mean he would be silenced.

The arrest occurred in June 2001 in the Albany suburb of Colonie, after Ritter allegedly arranged to meet with someone he thought was a 16-year-old girl he'd met in an Internet chat room. The person was actually an undercover police officer.

Ritter was arrested for attempted child endangerment, a class B misdemeanor, but his attorney and a Colonie Court judge agreed "to adjourn the matter in contemplation of a dismissal," according to the Schenectady Gazette.

Generally, if there are no further allegations against the defendant for the next six months, the case is dismissed and the record sealed. According to WTEN-TV, Ritter underwent court-ordered sex offender counseling from an Albany psychologist.

Although the court records are sealed, WNYT-TV reported that in 2001, the television station had reported that a 39-year-old William Ritter of Delmar had been arrested on charges he attempted to lure an underage girl he met on the Internet to a fast-food restaurant.

Ritter, a 41-year-old native of Gainesville, Fla., whose full name is William Scott Ritter Jr., has lived in the Albany suburb of Delmar with his wife and their twin daughters for two years. He served in the U.S. Marine Corps during the Gulf War. After the war, he left the Marines and became a U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq from 1991 to 1998.

The Colonie arrest was under the name William Ritter. Norah Murphy, Ritter's attorney, confirmed her client was arrested in June 2001, but refused further comment.

According to a report in the Albany Times Union, the June 2001 arrest was not William Ritter's first brush with the law. In April 2001, William Ritter attempted to meet someone he thought was a 14-year-old girl he met online but who in reality was an undercover police officer posing as an underage minor.

He was met at the meeting place by police officers but released without being charged.

During the administration of former President Bill Clinton, Ritter was an outspoken critic because "Iraq was winning its bid to retain its prohibited weapons."

A CNN report in 1998 said that Iraqi officials blocked Ritter's team from conducting searches of possible Iraqi weapons sites, claiming he was a spy for the CIA, a charge the United Nations and the United States denied.

At the time, the U.N. Security Council approved a statement "deploring" the Iraqi move to block Ritter's team and Clinton said Iraqi officials would not be allowed to decide the make-up of inspection teams.

Ritter resigned from the United Nations in 1998 because he felt that "Iraq remained insufficiently disarmed and ready to restart its nuclear and biological weapons programs."

The 6-foot, 4-inch former Marine subsequently changed his view on Iraq and has become a regular on network and cable news programs criticizing President George W. Bush and calling for his impeachment for putting members of the American military in a war he considers "illegal and based on a foundation of lies."

He says that Iraq's chemical, biological and nuclear weapons program must either accounted for or destroyed.

Ritter explained his reasons for his change of heart in the documentary "In Shifting Sands," which he wrote and directed. A wealthy Iraqi-American businessman, Shakir al Khafaji, reportedly contributed $400,000 towards the 91-minute account of the U.N. weapons inspection team in Iraq, known as UNSCOM.

The former inspector also spoke before the Iraq National Assembly last September urging Iraq to allow weapons inspectors to return.

Ritter called the U.N. weapons inspector's recent discovery of empty warheads in Iraq "an accounting problem" and an indication that the weapons inspectors were doing their job.

"Iraq should take a more proactive action and send military officers to every ammunition depot and open up every box to ensure this never again happens and give a full accounting," Ritter said on CNN last Friday.

However, Ritter has said that if the inspectors find evidence that Iraq is attempting to procure or manufacture or has manufactured and is hiding an active chemical agent, "Then we have a right to presume ill intent on the part of Saddam Hussein and hold them to account."

Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/22/ritter.arrest/

Ex-arms inspector, war foe Ritter confirms 2001 arrest
Thursday, January 23, 2003 Posted: 3:00 AM EST (0800 GMT)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scott Ritter, former U.N. weapons inspector and a critic of a U.S. war on Iraq, confirmed he was arrested on a misdemeanor charge in 2001 but refused to reveal details (January 23)

ALBANY, New York (CNN) -- Scott Ritter, a former U.S. Marine and U.N. weapons inspector who has been an outspoken critic of a possible war with Iraq, was arrested in 2001 and charged with a misdemeanor after allegedly communicating with an undercover officer posing as a 16-year-old girl, a source close to the investigation has told CNN.

Ritter confirmed the arrest in an interview with CNN Wednesday but declined to confirm any detail about the nature of the case.

"The facts are simple," Ritter said. "I was arrested in June of 2001. I was charged with a Class B misdemeanor and I stood before a judge in the town of Colonie in a public session with my wife by my side."

"The file was sealed. Those are the facts. I am ethically and legally bound not to discuss any aspect of this case," Ritter said. "So is everybody else involved. Unfortunately, there appear to be those who don't feel to be bound by rule of law."

The source said Ritter had arranged in an Internet chat room to meet with the girl at a Burger King in Colonie, a suburb of Albany, so she could witness him masturbating. The source said Ritter was charged with "attempted endangerment of the welfare of a child," a Class B misdemeanor.

The source also said Ritter was confronted by police in April 2001 after communicating with an undercover officer posing as a 14-year-old.

Ritter declined comment on those claims.

"It's not my duty to clear the air. I'm not asking for forgiveness," he said. "I'm not asking to wriggle out of my responsibility. The judge made his determination. The case was dismissed."


A source told CNN that Ritter had arranged to meet with a young girl at this restaurant.



Ritter's case received an "adjournment in contemplation of dismissal," or ACOD, Ritter and the source said. That meant the case was adjourned for six months; if the defendant stayed out of trouble in that time, the charge was to be dismissed and the record sealed.

"An ACOD means that it's expunged from the record, as if it never happened," Ritter told CNN affiliate WRGB-TV in Albany.

The dismissal of the case carries the presumption of innocence, Ritter said in an interview on CNN's "NewsNight with Aaron Brown."

"By sealing the file, it's designed to prevent the stigma attached with any unsubstantiated allegations [that may be] arising," Ritter said. "So as far as I'm concerned, as far as everyone should be concerned, this is a dead issue."

Efforts to confirm the case status or obtain records from the court and police were unsuccessful.

An ACOD does not prevent a defendant from commenting on a case, according to CNN's source, but Ritter disputed that assertion.

"That is not my understanding of the law," he said. "I've been advised by counsel that I am obligated legally and ethically not to discuss matters pertaining to a sealed case."

Albany's district attorney, Paul Clyne, refused to discuss the case. He also declined to respond to news reports that he fired an assistant district attorney, Cynthia Preiser, because of her handling of the case. He said only that he fired her because "she failed to inform me of the existence of a sensitive case."

"Cases involving adults soliciting minors over the Internet are not the kind of cases which should be handled by adjourning them in contemplation of dismissal," Clyne said. He emphasized that he was speaking in general -- not about any specific case.

Preiser declined comment.

Clyne said a prosecutor can use his or her discretion in seeking punishment in a case. The maximum penalty for a Class B misdemeanor is 180 days in jail, he said.

Ritter, who has recently appeared in major newspaper and television news reports warning that a U.S. attack on Iraq could kill thousands of U.S. soldiers and Iraqis, said he was angered that a case more than a year old would come to public attention now.

"I was a credible voice, I am a credible voice, and I will be a credible voice in regards to issues pertaining to Iraq, and obviously what you are not mentioning here is the timing of all of this," Ritter told "Newsnight." "Why did it come up now?"

Ritter said a media "feeding frenzy" stopped him from flying to Baghdad on Tuesday as scheduled to undertake a "personal initiative" dealing with potential conflict in Iraq. Ritter told WRGB that he decided not to go to Baghdad.

"If I went to Baghdad and tried to talk responsibly about issues of war and peace, this issue would have come up and it would have been a distraction that would have actually been a disservice," Ritter said. "There are people in Baghdad pursuing the initiative that I started, and I want to give them every chance of success. I don't want to provide any distractions."
__________________
Paint your genitals red and black, weedwack the hair off your grandmothers back" - Sean Conlin from Estragon
Reply With Quote
  #3  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Feb 10th, 2004, 10:28 PM       
I'm waiting to hear how this has any bearing on the man's expertise and policy understanding. I mean, you wouldn't want to make the argument that mistakes and poor choices, such as, let's say....a drug habit would change the strength or weaknesses behind this hypothetical person's arguments, right Ronnie??????

Rather than Googling up some dirt on Scott Ritter, why don't you contest his argument pertaining to WMD and Iraq??? Hmmm...?

EDIT: Furthermore, he makes a good argument when he brings up the timing behind all this. I mean, this administration has no record of attacking those who criticize or damage it, right? Anybody talk to Joe Wilson lately...?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 05:48 AM       
Ad hominem, you homo!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
BombsBurstingInAir BombsBurstingInAir is offline
Member
BombsBurstingInAir's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
BombsBurstingInAir is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 10:13 AM       
Ritter? Doesn't he have a thing for under age girls?
__________________
Hi.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
ranxer ranxer is offline
Member
ranxer's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: U$
ranxer is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 11:25 AM       
damn mudslingers

shoot the messenger with as much crap as you can, especially if he's right. er, correct.

ritter is still correct.. he's one of the few anti-war people that has tried to resist saying that saddam had 'NO' wmd's. he resonably maintained for quite a while that saddam has been 99% disarmed..

i'm really annoyed by people that keep saying that saddam had 'NO' wmd's, sheesh, how can people be so freaking exact about it?
__________________
the neo-capitalists believe in privatizing profits and socializing losses
Reply With Quote
  #7  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 08:22 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombsBurstingInAir
Ritter? Doesn't he have a thing for under age girls?
You're a funny guy. How goes it pops?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
Senior Member
Ronnie Raygun's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia United States of America
Ronnie Raygun is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 08:46 PM       
Raping young girls isn't the same as doing drugs.

It's calls into question his character.

No WMD's yet. Big deal.

It's obvious to me that they've just been moved.
__________________
Paint your genitals red and black, weedwack the hair off your grandmothers back" - Sean Conlin from Estragon
Reply With Quote
  #9  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 08:56 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helm
Ad hominem, you homo!
I'm sorry, the self-referential nature of this humor is a little too much. And no mayonaise.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
theapportioner theapportioner is offline
Mocker
theapportioner's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
theapportioner is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 10:35 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
It's obvious to me that they've just been moved.
Not only the voice of Reason, but also the voice of Evidence.

Look, even if Iraq moved them into Syria or wherever, why wouldn't the Syrians just keep the weapons for themselves???
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
Senior Member
Ronnie Raygun's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia United States of America
Ronnie Raygun is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 10:39 PM       
Not if they were afraid to....
__________________
Paint your genitals red and black, weedwack the hair off your grandmothers back" - Sean Conlin from Estragon
Reply With Quote
  #12  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 10:45 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
Raping young girls isn't the same as doing drugs.
Again, no way of substantiating any of these claims. Not only does Ronnie support the guilty liars (our president), he denounces the yet to be convicted.

Quote:
It's calls into question his character.
This is pathetic, even for you, Ronnie. Rush Limbaugh frequently denounced drug deals and drug addicts. I'd call this a question of character.

Meanwhile, you can't dispute one bit of th evidence he put forth on Iraq, especially now. So instead, you attack his character, which is yet to even truly be worthy of condemning. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Quote:
No WMD's yet. Big deal.
Yeah, I mean, we only went to war over it, right? Where are the stockpiles? Where was the imminent threat?

Quote:
It's obvious to me that they've just been moved.
Really? Where to? Syria? Iran? Russia!?!? Do you have any substantive leads, or are you just taking your normal role as Republican Party cheerleader...?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
theapportioner theapportioner is offline
Mocker
theapportioner's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
theapportioner is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 10:45 PM       
HOW CAN THEY BE AFRAID????

Iraq gives Syria ALL of its chemical, biological, and nukular weapons. The balance of power has shifted in a DRAMATIC way. Iraq then says "I want the weapons back". Syria says no. What can Iraq do??? If Iraq invades, Syria launches Iraqi scuds with Iraqi anthrax on Baghdad. Iraq can't retaliate. Or what if Syria turns and says "hah hah! now I am going to invade YOU, Iraq!!"

It would be EXTREMELY stupid for even an insane Saddam to do this. He is MUCH better off just dumping the weapons.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
Mocker
The_Rorschach's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WestPac
The_Rorschach is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 11:13 PM       
You know, drugs do affect your state of mind, but they are not a reflection on your character as an individual. I mean, aside from Kevin, Proto, You and TOAO, I think everyone here is getting high off of some illicit substance.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 11:27 PM       
Demonizing people who sell pot, while you illegally pop pills that are as addictive as heroin, says a LOT about your character.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Dole Dole is offline
Mocker
Dole's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Brighton & Motherfucking Hove
Dole is probably a spambot
Old Feb 12th, 2004, 09:49 AM       
"No WMD's yet. Big deal."

As I recall it was a pretty fucking big deal to you before the war, you hypocrite.
__________________
I don't get it. I mean, why did they fuck with the formula? Where are the car songs? There's only one song about surfing and it's a downer!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old Feb 12th, 2004, 04:42 PM       
That's 'cause Dubya scared 'em into it. It's not his fault.
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Feb 13th, 2004, 10:27 AM       
Naldo. Pull yourself together. Just as you were acquiring some depth of character you went all two dimensional again.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:12 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.