Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
theapportioner theapportioner is offline
Mocker
theapportioner's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
theapportioner is probably a spambot
Old Mar 27th, 2005, 10:48 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
I think she at least deserves an MRI to determine how true that really is, no?
By the way, in addition to a CT scan, she has had an EEG done, which recorded no brain activity.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
Mocker
ziggytrix's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: i come from the water
ziggytrix is probably a spambot
Old Mar 27th, 2005, 11:41 PM       
says who?
__________________
BOYCOTT SIGNATURES!
Reply With Quote
  #103  
theapportioner theapportioner is offline
Mocker
theapportioner's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
theapportioner is probably a spambot
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 12:11 AM       
Read it in the Times. Don't have time at the moment to find the article however...
Reply With Quote
  #104  
theapportioner theapportioner is offline
Mocker
theapportioner's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
theapportioner is probably a spambot
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 02:57 AM       
I'm procrastinating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/24/na.../24doctor.html (reg. reqd.)

Dr. Ronald Cranford, a neurologist and medical ethicist at the University of Minnesota Medical School who has examined Ms. Schiavo on behalf of the Florida courts and declared her to be irredeemably brain-damaged, said, "I have no idea who this Cheshire is," and added: "He has to be bogus, a pro-life fanatic. You'll not find any credible neurologist or neurosurgeon to get involved at this point and say she's not vegetative."

He said there was no doubt that Ms. Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state. "Her CAT scan shows massive shrinkage of the brain," he said. "Her EEG is flat - flat. There's no electrical activity coming from her brain."
Reply With Quote
  #105  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
Mocker
ziggytrix's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: i come from the water
ziggytrix is probably a spambot
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 10:11 AM       
Thanks. I like sources.
__________________
BOYCOTT SIGNATURES!
Reply With Quote
  #106  
AChimp AChimp is offline
Resident Chimp
AChimp's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Jungles of Borneo
AChimp is probably a real personAChimp is probably a real person
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 11:28 AM       
There should be a betting pool on when she finally croaks.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Cosmo Electrolux Cosmo Electrolux is offline
Stone Pants Rabbit
Cosmo Electrolux's Avatar
Join Date: May 2001
Location: In your distant memory
Cosmo Electrolux is probably a spambot
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 11:41 AM       
start a thread! I'm in!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #108  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
Mocker
ziggytrix's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: i come from the water
ziggytrix is probably a spambot
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 11:42 AM       
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
__________________
BOYCOTT SIGNATURES!
Reply With Quote
  #109  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 11:55 AM       
I think Schiavo and the Pope are in a race.

"I don't really see the perceived electoral benefit in this. It doesn't even fit the definition of a wedge issue per se, because it only appeals to your base and ostracizes those who don't support you. It's like trying to wedge yourself. Nobody with national ambitions, such as Sen. Frist, would run with this as a "wedge" issue, IMO."

Kev, how utterly awful does a democrat look if they voted 'no'? I think lots of people who didn't think the feeding tube should be removed could have voted no on the grounds that this is a hugely inappropriatte violation of separation of powers and states rights (if you're into those). Doesn't matter. It's way easy to paint anyone who voted no as voting in favor of starving a woman to death. THAT makes it a wedge issue. It energizes the base and it can be played over and over and over again. I promise you, come the midterms you'll see a lot of advertising ala swift boat veterans where candidates for re-election are portaryed as being pro murder.

By the way, Delay took his own father off life support. Not that I blame him, and not that I don't think it must have been an agonoizing decsision, but at least it was a private decision.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 04:59 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
I'm not playing god or even pushing my own personal beliefs at all. I've actually been in the position of arguing against doctors and refused breathing tubes for my own family who were in critical care. So you see Kelly, we're not all as fortunate as you to have the priviledge of being so laissez faire
Although you did have to argue against doctors, you did have the privilege of the government not interceding in your personal affairs. That's all I was saying. It's tough enough without making you, or anyone else's personal struggle a national spectacle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Didn't you say politicians were making Schiavo their political platform? That sounds a statement considering the partinship issue at hand.
I was speaking in a general sense. My feelings would be the same if any other party was in power right now trying to do the same things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
If you're so concerned with Judicial process, it should concern you that these judges are deliberating on the matter without ordering the medical tests that would inform their decisions.
This case has been tossed around for 15 years and 4 appeals. All the tests have been done. If her family had a claim with any legs (be it financially, alleged abuse, ect.), they would have been given custody long ago. They're grasping at straws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Calling him creepy isn't any less of a stretch then comparing him to the brother of a soldier who died in Afghanistan. (End with cutesy dime school french phrasing here.)
My point in bringing up that soldier was in light of another event where politicians and celebrities used a trajedy to grandstand toward their own ends. They were both equally sick displays of self-importance. That was the basis of the comparison, and nothing more.
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 11:10 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
I think lots of people who didn't think the feeding tube should be removed could have voted no on the grounds that this is a hugely inappropriatte violation of separation of powers and states rights (if you're into those).
Ugh. Max, I'll ask that you please be consistent. I'm openly a liberal, and ya know what? I'm FINE with the big, bad, evil federal government stepping in and telling the states when they're being idiots. This wouldn't be the first time it happened, and it certainly won't be the last.

Everyone turns into a proponent of "states rights" when they disagree with an issue but don't want to come out and say it. It became code for racist politicians who hated integration and busing, and it has become code language for those opposed to gay marriage. It has also become a convenient way for Dems to avoid the issue of guns. So I guess I'm not "into those things."

Quote:
It's way easy to paint anyone who voted no as voting in favor of starving a woman to death. THAT makes it a wedge issue. It energizes the base and it can be played over and over and over again. I promise you, come the midterms you'll see a lot of advertising ala swift boat veterans where candidates for re-election are portaryed as being pro murder.
The polling numbers on the Schiavo case are too poor for them to be so bold. There are some good Democrats in both houses who either voted for this, or in the case of the senate, merely stayed out of town and avoided the vote. I'm among them who don't particularly give a shit if this becomes a "wedge issue" for the GOP. If they show such a lack of class and character in their campaigns, I'd be among the first to condemn them for it.

But there are people out there, in both parties, who don't have such utilitarian motivations in supporting this measure.

Quote:
By the way, Delay took his own father off life support. Not that I blame him, and not that I don't think it must have been an agonoizing decsision, but at least it was a private decision.
Did his father have a living will? If not, were his fathers wishes clearly stated and/or documented? Was there any dispute over DeLay's guardianship? Did it take place in the state of Florida, under their particular laws? I don't know that Tom DeLay's actions have a whole lot to do with the arguments involved in this case.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done with this topic. She's going to die, and it's only a matter of time now (as some of you have so crassly pointed out). There's nothing Jeb Bush can, or even should do for that matter. I hope that the media and the protesters (as unlikely as it may be) will withdraw a bit from this and let nature take its course.

Incidentally, the families are now arguing over her corpse. Michael Schiavo, who has constanly invoked the name of God while referring to the death wishes of his wife, apparently wants to cremate her immediately. The parents obviously want to give her a traditional burial, but that aint gonna happen.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Dr. Boogie Dr. Boogie is offline
Funky Dynamite
Dr. Boogie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Help, I'm lost!
Dr. Boogie is probably pretty okDr. Boogie is probably pretty okDr. Boogie is probably pretty okDr. Boogie is probably pretty ok
Old Mar 28th, 2005, 11:42 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
Incidentally, the families are now arguing over her corpse. Michael Schiavo, who has constanly invoked the name of God while referring to the death wishes of his wife, apparently wants to cremate her immediately. The parents obviously want to give her a traditional burial, but that aint gonna happen.
Oh great. If you thought the right-to-die/pro-life people were annoying, just wait until you see the pro-fire/pro-dirt people.
__________________
Dr. Boogie: Everything is so simple when you have a rocket launcher for an arm!


Reply With Quote
  #113  
Emu Emu is offline
Level 29 ♂
Emu's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Peoria, IL
Emu is probably a real personEmu is probably a real person
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 01:03 AM       
So she'll probably end up rotting in a funeral home or something for 15 more years while the familes bitch at eachother and the major news networks finally have something to fill all of that lost Scott Peterson time.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Cosmo Electrolux Cosmo Electrolux is offline
Stone Pants Rabbit
Cosmo Electrolux's Avatar
Join Date: May 2001
Location: In your distant memory
Cosmo Electrolux is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 05:08 AM       
typical ....

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB02JH1U6E.html




LOS ANGELES (AP) - House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who has helped lead a congressional effort to keep Terri Schiavo alive, joined members of his own family nearly 17 years ago in allowing doctors not to take extraordinary measures to extend his father's life, a newspaper reported Sunday.

DeLay had just been re-elected to his third term in Congress in 1988 when his father, Charles DeLay, was severely injured in an accident. As the elder DeLay's vital organs began failing, the family chose not to connect him to a dialysis machine or take other measures to prolong his life, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday, citing court documents, medical records and interviews with family members.

"There was no point to even really talking about it," Maxine DeLay, the congressman's 81-year-old mother, told the Times. "Tom knew, we all knew, his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way."

"Tom went along" with the family's decision, she said.

She called comparisons between her husband's case and that of Schiavo "interesting" but said she agrees with her son that Schiavo might have a chance of recovering if her feeding tube were reinserted.

DeLay helped push through Congress a special law allowing Terri Schiavo's parents to ask federal courts to order their brain-damaged daughter's feeding tube reinserted after state courts allowed it to be removed. However, after hearing their pleas, federal judges refused to intervene.

The Texas Republican also accused Schiavo's husband and the courts of "an act of barbarism" against Schiavo, who doctors say is in a persistent vegetative state.

The congressman declined to be interviewed about his father's case, but a press aide said it was "entirely different than Terri Schiavo's."

"The only thing keeping her alive is the food and water we all need to survive. His father was on a ventilator and other machines to sustain him," said DeLay spokesman Dan Allen.

Charles DeLay, 65, and his brother and their wives were trying out a tram the brothers had built to carry their families up and down a slope from their Texas home to the shore of a lake when the tram jumped the tracks on Nov. 17, 1988.

Charles DeLay was pitched headfirst into a tree. Hospital admission records showed he suffered multiple injuries, including a brain hemorrhage.

Doctors advised that he would "basically be a vegetable," said the congressman's aunt, JoAnne DeLay, who suffered broken bones in the crash.

Like Schiavo, Charles DeLay had no living will, but he had reportedly expressed to others his wish not to be kept alive by artificial means.

He died on Dec. 14, 1988. He had not shown any signs of being conscious, except that his pulse rate would rise slightly when younger son Randall entered the room, Maxine DeLay said.

"There was no chance he was ever coming back," she said of her husband.

AP-ES-03-27-05 2105EST
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Cosmo Electrolux Cosmo Electrolux is offline
Stone Pants Rabbit
Cosmo Electrolux's Avatar
Join Date: May 2001
Location: In your distant memory
Cosmo Electrolux is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 02:34 PM       
well...is she dead yet?
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Ninjavenom Ninjavenom is offline
Lord Felch Demon
Ninjavenom's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Ninjavenom is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 03:31 PM       
I've been wondering that for a week now.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Cosmo Electrolux Cosmo Electrolux is offline
Stone Pants Rabbit
Cosmo Electrolux's Avatar
Join Date: May 2001
Location: In your distant memory
Cosmo Electrolux is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 03:58 PM       
I saw where the Schindlers lawyer claims that Terri "told" her she wants to live.....an amazing feat considering the woman has no brain to speak of (Terri, not the lawyer)
Reply With Quote
  #118  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 05:00 PM       
I don't think that it's a state's rights versus federal rights issue so much as the executive branch going outside its scope to pressure the judicial branch. Each have their own separate and distinct responsibilities as outlined in the Constitution ... a system of checks and balances. I'm not saying it hasn't been done before by either party but that doesn't make it any more correct. ... i.e. the case was being reviewed (and not for the first time) in a federal court that happened to be in the state of Florida.
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 05:45 PM       
So, then, you would have been happy with Seperate but Equal?

That was a Supreme Court desiscion that was opposed by the other branches. In fact, a later supreme court overturned it.

The idea of checks and balances isn 't to have political pissing contests or to preserve each branch for their own sakes. Its to make sure one branch can step in if another is overstepping its authority and haring the people.

Damn you, Kevin, for compeling me to get involved.
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
Mocker
ziggytrix's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: i come from the water
ziggytrix is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 06:15 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Blanco
That was a Supreme Court desiscion that was opposed by the other branches. In fact, a later supreme court overturned it.
Which, in essence, means it didn't require emergency action by a different branch of the government to right things! :O
__________________
BOYCOTT SIGNATURES!
Reply With Quote
  #121  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 07:52 PM       
Several laws were enacted that contradicted it before Brown vs Board of education.

Do you honestly mean to sit there and tell me it would be in the best interests of the country for the other two branches to sit by while the Supreme Court said segregation was good?
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
Mocker
ziggytrix's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: i come from the water
ziggytrix is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 08:07 PM       
Did I fucking say that?
__________________
BOYCOTT SIGNATURES!
Reply With Quote
  #123  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 08:11 PM       
So you agree that there are times when one branch should overstep its bounds in an extreme case to over turn a bad desision by another branch?
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
Mocker
ziggytrix's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: i come from the water
ziggytrix is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 08:47 PM       
Nope. Key words being "overstep its bounds". There exist limitations on each branch and they are there with good reason. If the Supreme Court is seriously doing the wrong thing, Congress can impeach the Judges. It can pass laws that the Court will have to rule on.

But the rulings of the Supreme Court are the LAW, and if you want to challenge the LAW, you do it within the LAW.

Now I'm not saying that the Congress broke any laws here, it was just inappropriate in my opinion. I don't support it, and I hope you can understand that when fuckers like Senator Frist imply that someone who disagrees with him doesn't "value the sanctity of life" while they themselves sanction murder through military collateral damage every damn day, that I am offended. I see it as moral grandstanding, and if there's one thing I hate to listen to, it's a holier-than-thou preacher with questionable motives.

Then when people say things like "About Federal judges.... I just don't think we should allow them to be end all to rulings involving personal ethics hot bed issues." I kinda wonder what the hell they're thinking. And it worries me a bit.
__________________
BOYCOTT SIGNATURES!
Reply With Quote
  #125  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Mar 29th, 2005, 09:03 PM       
Quote:
Nope. Key words being "overstep its bounds". There exist limitations on each branch and they are there with good reason.
Yes, but the constitution is a living document. It can be changed and reinterpreted.

Quote:
If the Supreme Court is seriously doing the wrong thing, Congress can impeach the Judges.
Not the supreme Court. You're there until you resign or die.
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:48 AM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.