My Take On Existentialism

[Kulturkampf]

Existentialism is not philosophy -- it is basically coupling the classic conceptof cynicism (which is philosophy) with thought-provoking literature critical of how we live our lives.

I think that existentialism is not in any way properly a philosophy -- it is the act of saying, "we know nothing and I am disappointed with the emptiness of life." By that regard anyone with any intellectual integrity and a slightly depressed outlook is an existentialist.

I remember hearing about existentialismand taking an interest in this philosophy -- however, I merely feel like I discovered a new genre of literature, not a new area of profound human thought.

It is not profound or amazing, it is not some giant movement -- it is a really neat way of writing literature, and I do really appreciate existentialism for the great novels that were written, but treating it as a philosophy more than it is a literature genre is foolish.

Sure, Kierkegaard,Nietzsche, Camus, Sartre, etc. pretended to expand on these in non-fictional pieces, but I was never impressed -- it was a slightly better version of reading a MySpace blogger saying "Today I found out my girlfriend cheated onme, and I noted there is no evidence that there is a God (or Kierkegaard: God exists but we are alone to suffer). I do not feel like I have a soul-mate. <emo>I do do not even feel like a human.</emo>"

Existentialism = depressing literature bent on criticism of life and cynicism, vaguely philosophical beacause too many 18-25 year olds after reading it were inspired to write their own cynical, depressing stories and/or non-fictional essays, hereby convincing people that this was somehow a philosophy.

If you meet someone and discuss philosophy, and their favorite philosophers and thinkers were better regarded for being 19th and 20th century playwrights and/or novelists, they are actually into literature, not philosophy.

I do not pretend to be in philosophy -- I read some of the most major political, philosophical works and got the most general overviews of philosophers, read some St. Augustine on the side, etc. but when I was interested in learning about this giant phrase people toss around, I ended up reading this new genre of literature called philosophy, or reading non-fictional critical essays that sounded just a few steps above MySpace bloggers on bad days.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Here we go....

[Emu]

You've never met an existentialist who wasn't some kind of emo, have you?

[WhiteRat]

Jesus Christ KK, shut the fuck up, you give the military a bad name. It's no wonder why we have a curfew here...it's because of dumb drunk fucks like you.

[Kulturkampf]

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I imagine a real existentialist to be a 30-40 year old bookwormish version of an emo kid.

[Emu]

Weren't Sartre and Nietzsche pretty savage opponents of this nihilistic existentialism you're talking about?

[sspadowsky]

Originally Posted by fruit loop

If you meet someone and discuss philosophy, you will find that they are a boorish, long-winded, pretentious douche nozzle, and you will find your eyes glossing over fifteen seconds into their painfully dull, self-indulgent soliloquy about how super-smart and important they are.

Fixed.

[mburbank]

OAO and Klusterfuck are basically the same kind of person.

[Kulturkampf]

I think Sartre is pro-nihilistic masturbation. I do not know wbaout Nietzsche.

To date, I have generally written this shit off.

[ziggytrix]

This shit is only interesting after a BAC of 0.2 has been surpassed.

Even Nietzsche knew that.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by Kulturkampf

I think Sartre is pro-nihilistic masturbation. I do not know wbaout Nietzsche.

To date, I have generally written this shit off.

You are one to talk about intellectual masturbation, given the kind of threads you post here.

[Sethomas]

Camus hated the title "Existentialist", and I doubt Nietzsche ever heard of it. Nietzsche isn't an existentialist himself, it's just that some of his ideas were borrowed.

And the whole initial post smells of "I don't know what existentialism is, but I'll throw out some assessments based on its connotations for me."

[cherry]

you know what, I agree with what the initial poster said- to some extent. I think its an interesting point to make that existentialism works as a literary movement but not as a philosophy (as in the best way to live your life). One of the best stabs at existentialism I have read is the cult feminist novel, Fear of Flying. Jong laughs at the type of malaise ridden male who will use existentialism as an excuse to avoid any responsibility. and I must say I have met more than a few pseudophilosophers who have done just that. 'yeah sweetheart we should be living for the moment- fancy a shag?'

now the way you all jumped on the original poster I am guessing you don't like him, but it was an attempt to get debate going. this is the philosophy board after all.

peace out tough guys!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Troll!

Hi, Cherry.

[mburbank]

Hi, Cherry!

When you get a chance, go to the sticky thread called "This man Loves Life" where I have collected the ongoing Brilliance that is KultureKlub. He's my new love interest.

[cherry]

I take your point Max. he seems to be showing evidence of mental illness and I would reccomend respite care to give his family a well earned rest.

however, his point here was sound. should we not treat each post in kind? perhsps he is trying to change and deserves a chance.

I mean if I had listened everytime someone had told me to shut the fuck up, I would be dumber than Tommy by now.

The internet should help to remove our prejudices. for instance Max, if I judged you on how you looked I would assume you were a facist, abortionist killing cracker. but I know that beneath that white power bone head there is the mind of a kitten that just wants to be petted.

all I am saying is give peace a chance. besides he is fairly entertaining. one of my favourite games is 'lets poke the reactionary conservative with the pointy stick of socialism. I have been playing with my dad for years.

[kahljorn]

From what I understand of existentialism there's an actual philosophy behind it but you might have to look farther than a dictionary definition which is basically what you supplied, "life sucks so get over it"(a typical existential understanding) or whatever you threw out. Typically we call statements like that "Scenario". After that comes the "true" philosophy part of it, the mechanics, how we deal with it and how to make the most of it. That's a really watered down explanation, on purpose. You could use that to further your understanding of any philosophy!

Fuck I never really even considered existentialists depressed, but I could see how some people could. I think you just don't like existentialism because it doesn't glorify man, nor does it glorify his ego and creations. It's very down to earth and "Real", explaining why everything in life has a natural propensity to die or get fucked up. I don't think it's so much depressing whiny shit as accepting that things in life aren't peachy, there's wars and people kill and steal from eachother. Simple fucking fact.
Life is a phenomenon, and it's constantly fighting off death. Existence itself is comprised largely of space uninhabitable by man, a vacuous existence in which you could die within a second. The natural state of existence is, of course, nothingness(strangely the feeling of most religions and mythologies). Hence the emptyness feeling of it. But it isn't about the emptyness, it's about adapting to the universe, or the emptyness, properly and FLOURISHING. Same with any philosophy, friend.

I skipped through 90% of this thread since I'm in a rush, sorry if I missed something or didn't talk enough or something.

By the way I'll be back to the boards in like a few weeks, hopefully at least one or two of you missed me.

[Sethomas]

I took a class on Existentialism and it was taught in a bit of a roundabout way, so I never really picked up exactly when people who we now call "existentialist" actually started actually using that as a banner. I know that Sartre defined himself as an atheist existentialist, and that Camus refused to be labelled as such, but whether Kierkegaard or Dostoyevsky ever even heard of the term is a mystery to me.

The word existentialism is, as I've learned from experience, applied emotionally as a general detachment to any objective value to life, whether in general or one's own specific life. However, that doesn't really have anything to do with existentialism as a philosophy. By the 1930s the philosophical movement was firmly stratified into Christian, Atheist, and Agnostic Existentialism, but the term existential in the emotional sense was invented out of a criticism from the French mainstream Catholic community, as well as the Christian Existentialist movement, toward the Atheist Existentialists.

Christian Existentialism, for instance, tends to focus on taking one's own religious ideas or doctrines and applying them to achieve personal meaning rather than just social conformity. This is basically the only thing Kierkegaard (the "father of existentialism") had in mind with his writings: the dichotomy of Christianity versus Christendom. Kierkegaard's strategy was to always analyze a number of situations and reducing them to a small number of possible interpretations, but never choosing the "right" one--that's something that each person must do for himself.

This general strategy, after several decades of elaboration by numerous others who might or might not be called "existentialist" coagulated into the one axiom of Existentialism as defined by Sartre, "existence precedes essence". In the atheist camp, however, this implies that there is no external reality to what we experience and so existence has no essence whatsoever until we decide to give it some. Hence the stereotype that existentialism is about whining how pointless life is.

[Mr. Vagiclean]

How can you say you appreciate the fictional, "philosophy presented in a work of art", existentialist novels while you think the non-fictional, "philosophy presented in a work of philosophy" is unimpressive? That's like saying I like the ideas behind this novel but I DON'T LIKE THE IDEAS

[Gurlugon]

Existentialism is a feeling.

[ArrowX]

I've actually thought about existensialism a few times but It doesn't make sense since the meaning of life IMO is to exist, if religion is fraud then the point of existence is to exist it is quite simple.

[cherry]

'How can you say you appreciate the fictional, "philosophy presented in a work of art", existentialist novels while you think the non-fictional, "philosophy presented in a work of philosophy" is unimpressive? That's like saying I like the ideas behind this novel but I DON'T LIKE THE IDEAS'.

I do take your point, however for me philosophy must be a lived experience. A good philosopher considers new ways of being, new methods by which to live their life- and I mean live- not merely cope. Existentialism to me is a coping mechanism at best, and at worst it has been hijacked by 20 something party people who, as I stated earlier use it as an excuse for poor behaviour. and as I am now all grown up and the wrong side of 30, I think that was me back then.

besides that are plenty of examples of literature that use ethcial and philosophical principles as narrative, but I would not live my life by them. take Fight Club for example.

[mburbank]

Cherry, I don't look like a bleeding heart liberal Unitarian? Lawsy. You should have seen me in my younger days, with my long hair, my beard, my unborn twin dangling all naked and free and slightly off center from my midsection, wriggling it's wee painted toe nails.

[Mr. Vagiclean]

seriously if i never had a professor making sure to acknowledge the system behind existentialism I would've AGREED with KK and thought existentialism is as wishy-washy as a testtube full of shit, "go to her NORAEBANGS" you gawking fuck. to think my grandparents actually share the same country with you and your ULTRA HUMAN GOD GOD no FUCK you i hope the plane that patient zero boarded blows up time and land on your steamy head


I guess similar to Kahl, I don't care to view existentialism as able to only be perceived as depressing. Out of curiousity I ran "existentialism" on youtube only to retrieve a handful of homemade black and white films with kids my age whispering "existential" narration complete with statics piano and serene ocean horizon. I guess that's what the hijacking and need to experience life first by cherry is about and I get ANTSY. geezus the first book i was ever recommended about existentialism, Existentialism and Human Emotions by sartre, successfully defends almost ALL the charges brought up in this thread.

existentialism as a coping mechanism is probably for young assholes my age, but i think it's definite mistake to dismiss it simply as another genre of literature or an eluding shell of a solid philosophy

[Sethomas]

Everyone would be a lot smarter if they read my posts, they'd just be really bored, too.