Sporting Arenas

[El Blanco]

Recently, in New York, there has been a debate over some new sports complexes that are being pushed.

The most well known is the new football stadium along the West Side Highway meant for the New York Jets NFL team. The other is a basketball arena being proposed for the New Jersey Nets if they move to Brooklyn( looks inevitable).

Recently, NYC has had budget problems. Firehouses have been closed, city workers have gone without contracts,public schools in disrepair, the usual bullshit. Obviously, there is some outrage (understandibly so) over spending $600 million to build up the new West Side Stadium.

However, the JEts are throwing in close to $1 billion. The stadium will bring in new revenues and jobs (hopefully, the lease will be a little more fair than the sweatheart deal the Yankees enjoy). They are also reconstructing the whole area as part of the deal. So far, I've head that the Jacob Javits Convention Center is being expanded and they are building a new public park.

They are also hoping this will attract a Superbowl(probable) and the 2012 Olympics (hopeful). More and more money for the City.

Whether or not this will be done properly and justify the expenses only time will tell.

Does the chance of such a huge return in the future justify the spending of so much money that can be spent in other more vital areas right now?

What about the role a professional sports franchise plays in a city?

What about Turner Field and Camden Yards, where not only did they build stadia, but also reconstructed the entire area? How have those cities' faired since then?

And don't most cities that host the Olympics actually lose money?

Being the sports geek I am, my opinion is probably biased, but I am very critical of the location they chose for the WSS.

I know its no the usual "conservatives/liberals/capitalists/socialists are evil" or "Bush/Kerry is the AntiChrist" type arguments we all seem to know and love, but I figured since pro sports is a multibillion $ industry and are deeply ingrained in our culture, its worth exploring.

[AChimp]

Here in Winnipeg, they decided to build a new arena smack in the middle of downtown. The government is paying for part of it, and there's no parking.

Plus it looks fucking ugly. They were going to build a cool futuristic building with glass and lights all over it, but then old people got all worked up and demanded another brick monstrosity because old people fucking suck.

:rant

[Royal Tenenbaum]

Sports Arenas, etc. are bad economically, and the tax-payers should never have to foot the bill. New arenas bring in almost no jobs, since they have like 50 insanely high-paid people and then a bunch of people that only work during game days (which is less than half a year, 20 days or something for NFL).

Check this out if you want a good explaination on why stadiums suck: http://www.heartland.org/pdf/madness.pdf

[Matt Harty]

The last team that deserves a new stadium is the Jets, anyways.

[El Blanco]

The stadiums are open year round. They host conventions and trade shows and such.

From what I've been reading, it isn't the stadiums themselves, its the sweatheart tax and lease deals that go along with them.

[Zebra 3]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

And don't most cities that host the Olympics actually lose money?

Montreal's '76 Summer Games raised the bar on how the Olympics should be hosted and in the process overspent leaving a deficit, while Calgary's '88 Winter Games were not only a financial success, but the facilities continue to be used for the training of world class athletes.

[AChimp]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

The stadiums are open year round. They host conventions and trade shows and such.

From what I've been reading, it isn't the stadiums themselves, its the sweatheart tax and lease deals that go along with them.

Yeah, you can sure have conventions here and keep this thing open year round.

[Matt Harty]

Disney On Ice.

[El Blanco]

Actually, ya, especially roofed stadia. You really think they build those things for 8 days a year?

Right off the bat, during football season, they are in constant need of upkeep. The groundscrew is always working on the turf and general maintanence to the stadium.

Hey, Chimp and Matt, ever hear of these things called called concerts? Apparently, they need large seated venues. Also, where are the political conventions being held? Thats right, sports arenas.

So yes, they are used year round.

[AChimp]

Very few concerts are put in the arena now, because we have separate places for concerts. The last one was Metallica, and then WWF came here. That's two days outside of hockey season.

Political conventions are held in convention centres because they are cleaner and you don't have to piss in a stainless steel trough.

I guarantee you that Winnipeg Stadium is NOT maintained 365 days a year. :/

[punkgrrrlie10]

Originally Posted by Matt Harty

The last team that deserves a new stadium is the Jets, anyways.

agreed.

I guess ever since I learned about what the owner of the Dodgers did when they were moved to LA has soured me on ever building new stadiums unless they are in the middle of nowhere.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by AChimp

Very few concerts are put in the arena now, because we have separate places for concerts. The last one was Metallica, and then WWF came here. That's two days outside of hockey season.

Actually, stadia now are built to handle those types of tasks.

Political conventions are held in convention centres because they are cleaner and you don't have to piss in a stainless steel trough.

A properly maintained stadium is perfectly clean. The national political conventions here are being held in sporting arenas. They have greater seating capacity and are way more media friendly than convention centers.

A political convention isn't a typical convention. Its more of a pep rally where the focus is maintained on a central area. Just like a concert or game.

I guarantee you that Winnipeg Stadium is NOT maintained 365 days a year. :/

No offence, but Winnepeg had no bussiness trying to compete with the likes of Toronto and New York. that arena shouldn't even exist in the first place.

[Ant10708]

Ny City is one fo the major targets of terrorism. I'd rather see that tax payer money used for training our people better and makign sure we have enough health personnel avaailable. Used to help Ny schools maybe

build more strip clubs maybe


but not for a stadium

[punkgrrrlie10]

Originally Posted by Ant10708

Ny City is one fo the major targets of terrorism. I'd rather see that tax payer money used for training our people better and makign sure we have enough health personnel avaailable. Used to help Ny schools maybe

build more strip clubs maybe


but not for a stadium

You sounded viable right up until the strip club comment.

[El Blanco]

Yes, the schools need the money right now. But, what if this stadium brings in lots more money? More money for schools, police, firefighters, hospitals, etc etc.

Of course, they lease and other arrangements need to be closely scrutinized.

[Guderian]

Here in Winnipeg, they decided to build a new arena smack in the middle of downtown. The government is paying for part of it, and there's no parking.

The Jets are never coming back to Winnipeg. You'd think they'd have realized that by now.

[Big Papa Goat]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

The stadiums are open year round. They host conventions and trade shows and such.

From what I've been reading, it isn't the stadiums themselves, its the sweatheart tax and lease deals that go along with them.

I work at the Saddledome in Calgary, and we don't have many events between hockey seasons at all.
http://www.pengrowthsaddledome.com/events.htm
But, we do offer free tours, providing employment for myself, and 5 other tour guides :D

[AChimp]

A political convention isn't a typical convention. Its more of a pep rally where the focus is maintained on a central area. Just like a concert or game.

Trying having one outside in -40*C weather.

No offence, but Winnepeg had no bussiness trying to compete with the likes of Toronto and New York. that arena shouldn't even exist in the first place.

Who says we're trying to compete? I'm just showing you that your hard-on for stadiums is irrational.

[Guderian]

Can I please have a tour of the Saddledome? I would like to become aquainted with it's facilities.