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  #51  
AChimp AChimp is offline
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 10:42 AM       
I think Vinth is challenging us to break into his house and rifle through his sock drawer so he can "use weapons" to "defend his family" again. Of course, we'd probably just find that his socks have been victims of brutal masturbatings.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 10:45 AM       
They need to join a soiled clothing suppoprt hose group.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 10:49 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
We are taking money out of our pockets to give to old geezers who want to government to pay for drugs that they could pay for with the discresional income they have, which btw is the HIGHEST out of the age groups!
Yes, that would be wrong for a citizen who has paid into the healthcare system for 40-50 working years of their life to expect a decent return on their investment.

The fact that the receive the most is because

1) They're older, they paid for it, they need it the most and deserve it.

2) The increase in the percentage of citizens within this age bracket is a result of an increase in birthrate at the time of their births. It's called the "Baby Boom" which followed World War II ... look it up. Again, not THEIR fault.

3) Before you get your panties in a twist, realize that this age bracket, if anything, is growing so you better get used to it.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 10:53 AM       
Kelly, you are once again wrong about a subject.

The old want the government to pay for DRUGS. DRUGS are not covered by what they originally invested in. Why should we add something that is just going to place a burden on me and my children? The senior citizen group has the most disposable income out of ANYONE, so they can pay for their own pills their own fucking selves. They are getting what is put in already for Medicare and Medicade. We don't need the govt buying our medicine for me. That is an expense that just happens, like a tune up and getting gas for a car. Should insurance companies pay for that as well, Kelly?
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:01 AM       
When my car needs a tune up, it doesn't die. But I can see where humn lives and cars seem equal to you, on account of you being a really shitty Christian. Run that car/person analogy past your Priest next time you confess. I hear it's good for the soul.

Here comes a shocker, Vinth. I partially gree with you. I don't think rich geezers should get government health or perscription benefits. My grandfather certainly had enough moolah to poay for his won medical needs and I see no reason why any of my tax money should have gone to him. Nor do I see any reason the baby boomers should get a chunk of my check if they don't need it, but that one won't go my way, becuase there are a hell of lot of baby boomers out there and we live in a representative democracy.

I think people who can't afford medicine should get it from the government. Why? Because I think you shouldn't have to die younger or live with pain because you're not as wealthy as someone else. I think life has an intrinsic worth. That's value found in most religions, and I think as a society we should uphold it. You may need it some day Vinth. You're only making just above the poverty level, and your health is so bad they wouldn't let you serve in the military.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:03 AM        Vince
WTF Vince,

My nana gets a little less than $800.00 per month. That isn't much to live on. After property taxes, bills, insurance on auto-house-self she barely has enough for food for the month.

And out of curiosity.....what insurance company do you have the doesn't pay for your meds? Mine always have.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:07 AM       
I have insurance through my mothers work that I pay for. When I graduate, I will be persuing whatever insurance I think I need.

And did your nana save her money or plan responsibily in her younger age? If she didn't, well, she rolled the dice of life and it came up snake eyes.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:12 AM        Wow
Actually, she did, but she ended up raising 3 grandchildren with very little help from social services. That tends to suck up resources pretty damn quick.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:13 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
The old want the government to pay for DRUGS. DRUGS are not covered by what they originally invested in.
Drugs are not a part of healthcare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
Why should we add something that is just going to place a burden on me and my children?
1) You have no children and I seriously doubt the prospects for that to change any time soon, commander.

2) They've been paying into the system since before you were fuckin' born ... THAT'S WHY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
The senior citizen group has the most disposable income out of ANYONE, so they can pay for their own pills their own fucking selves.
Yeah, they're rolling in the dough. Most are on a fixed income genius. Where do you get your stats from anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
They are getting what is put in already for Medicare and Medicade. We don't need the govt buying our medicine for me.
Yeah ... are you old or disabled? Strike that. I forgot about the hives thing. Do you even know how overpriced that medication is?! People from around Michigan go to Canada to pay for drugs on their own dime because it's cheaper than drugs here WITH insurance. Maybe, if nothing else, the government should start enforcing a cap on the amount they can charge for medication her in the U.S. and, subsequently, any meds the government does pay for would be nominal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceZeb
That is an expense that just happens, like a tune up and getting gas for a car. Should insurance companies pay for that as well, Kelly?
If you think of like having a car under warranty, yes. They paid the warranty and, at the very least, the "oil change" senior citizens get should be at a reduced price.

P.S. You know what, Vince. You're constantly spouting off about how proud you are of the veterans of the armed services and what they did for our country but when it comes down to paying tribute to them (people that served in WWII would be roughly in their 80's nowadays) it's just so much lip service.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:16 AM       
Isn't that pretty much what Jesus said? Wait, here it is.

"Honor thy Mother and thy6 Father, sayeth the Lord. Unless thy Nana did not save her wealth or plan responsibily in her younger age? If she didn't, well, she hath rolled the dice of life and it came up snake eyes."
-Jesus Vinth.

Lets face it mommies insurance boy, you're a bag of shit. Anyone who thinks it's okay for the Nannas of the world to suffer and die because you in your wisdom make some judgement about how they've lived their lives...

"Ohh! OH!! I didn't THAY that! I'm a Catholic, I believe they should be helped, jutht not by me, and the government can't take MY MONEY to keep them alive and comfortable! THEY ROLLED THE DAMN DITHE!! I'M A CATHOLIC THAMURAI AND I THAY LET 'EM ROT!! THERE DITHE WATH THNAKE EYETH!"
-Vince Chritht.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:22 AM       
Kelly, what are you blabbering about? So what they pay for Medicare and Medicade. I pay for car insurance. Does that mean I can go to my car insurance agent and demand that they pay for my tires? My gas? My windshield wiper fluid? No, it doesn't Those are expenses that come with the benefit of owning a car, such as medicine is a expense that comes with living.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:24 AM       
Max, quit. Your baiting is nothing but a constant pimple on my internet ass. Why don't you go log off and indoctrinate your daughter to be a good little Jewish Princess and a nice little happy liberal.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:35 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
"Ohh! OH!! I didn't THAY that! I'm a Catholic, I believe they should be helped, jutht not by me, and the government can't take MY MONEY to keep them alive and comfortable! THEY ROLLED THE DAMN DITHE!! I'M A CATHOLIC THAMURAI AND I THAY LET 'EM ROT!! THERE DITHE WATH THNAKE EYETH!"
-Vince Chritht.

That is the funniest Vince impersonation yet

Somebody should make it their sig.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:41 AM       
Private insurance companies sign you up and know all the health risks that you have. They're supposed to cover what's under the policy as long as it's not part of a pre-existing condition. They have no problem accepting your money when you're young and healthy but when payback time rolls around, they fight hard and long against your claim to make sure you get the smallest scrap they can legally afford to give you. The government is no different ... run just like a big company. These people have paid into this insurance their whole lives and now it's payback time and the good ol' U.S. of A is fightin' the claim. If you've ever fought an insurance claim in your life for what you're entitled too, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 11:46 AM        LOL
Very true Kelly

I'm currently battling over a dental proceedure for a broken tooth. I needed a crown. They only paid as if it were a filling. The reason.....because I didn't need a root canal.

Thankfully, my dentist is fighting on my behalf. And keeps sending them paperwork instead of having me do it.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:22 PM       
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People from around Michigan go to Canada to pay for drugs on their own dime because it's cheaper than drugs here WITH insurance.
It's not just in Michigan. There are Internet pharmacies in Canada now that sell drugs to people in the U.S. Even with the added shipping costs, it's much cheaper.

It's so cheap, in fact, that the drug companies are bitching about how it's parallel marketing and the Canadian drugs are competing with their own, high-priced U.S. drugs... which are the exact same damn little pills.

The FDA is apparently looking into banning drug imports because they "aren't approved for U.S. use" even though these Canadian companies are buying drugs from U.S. companies at the federal government negotiated rate and selling them back to American citizens.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 12:40 PM        See
Guess Vince has nothing to say once he finds out that sometimes even when you do all the right things you still end up in a bad financial situation.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 01:16 PM       
I just can't believe he's still going with the car/life analogy. Medicine=Gas.

I think not being able to distinguish between people and things is a serious indication of sociopathy.

Vinth, I may well be baiting you, but that doesn't mean I don't think every word I'm writting. You are one sick animal. You honest to God don't have any compassion at all, do you? No empathy. It's all you, how hard life is for you, how dishonest unworthy people are taking things away from you.

And here's the thing. The day may well come that despite all your 'planning', you'll find you need help. Your health isn't that great to begin with and medicine can be VERY expensive. You might find yourself out of work. Hey, the economy is in pretty rough shape these days. Where will your insurance come from then? You might need food stamps. And I'm sure if you run into any difficulty getting services, if you have to make your way through any red tape, you'll whine and cry and blame it on everybody else. Somehow I can't imagine you saying "Oh well. I guess I just rolled snake eyes."
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 01:19 PM       
Severe Entitlement Mentality Disorder.

Who is responsible for me getting a cold, or AIDS for that matter? Who is responsible for me getting old and infirm?

You guys? Rich People?

Let me tell you a little bit about insurance in general. The whole thing started as a cooperative effort by farmers to protect one another from financial ruin due to wind blowing over one's crops. All the farmers would pitch in to help when one farmer lost his ass due to an "Act of God."

Insurance was invented to protect normal, hard-working, productive people from catastrophic financial losses. Insurance companies do not insure your car no more than they insure Farmer John's stalks of wheat. They insure your financial health.

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid... all that crap is insurance. Same general intention applies: Americans believe we should be protected from Financial Death through catastrophic accident, so we have incorporated that concept into the function of our government.... or more correctly, our government has assumed that responsibility from us.

I'll interrupt myself here before I forget to ask this: How many of you Oh So Concerned and Sensitive citizens actually donate your own money to charities that protect old people from Financial Death due to their age? I see no hands being raised. I suppose that's something you only care enough about to bitch when other people don't get forced to put THEIR money where YOUR mouth is, right?

Anyhoo...

Your new cap for your tooth is not a financial catastrophe. In a more efficient and honest world, you wouldn't even be able to purchase an insurance policy that covers something that incidental. You're bitching cause that damned insurance company won't cover your cap under the copayment, but the thing you don't realize is that your so-called dental insurance is costing you way more money than you'll ever save by having it.

Do you guys really think that you are so much smarter and better off than our entire aging baby-boomer generation that it is truly somehow YOUR responsibility to provide for THEIR retirement? Think about that. Are you assuming that all those people are so damn stupid that they never anticipated growing old?

"Damn! How the Hell did I get so wrinkly and stiff all of a sudden?! Is this some strange punishment from GOD?! I thought I was going to stay 18 forever!! DAMN YOU!!!" *shakes fist at sky*

It is sad and unfortuante that our elders bought into the idea that their government, the least efficient mechanism for accomplishment in the history of Mankind, would provide for them in their old age. It's sad because we are seeing the results of those empty promises made by politicians long ago in an effort to get their paws deeper into the pockets of their employers: 50% of Americans reaching 65 with access to less than $500 in cash and effectively no ability to provide for themselves. What was the Amazing American Gubbermint's Wonderful Plan for this again? Oh yeah... here's your big, shiny "Poverty" sticker Granny. If you are really, really good, and cast your vote this Fall, we'll pretend to care a little more about your mounting pharmaceutical bills... though, we won't actually DO anything right now. You'll be long dead before change is forced upon us.

Well, at least Granny gets some hope... and it's good for her to get out of the house at least once a year, even if it is only to vote for a President that got killed 40 years ago.

It looks like this could go on for pages more. I'll just "Submit" now and see if anything I've said so far sparks any interest.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 01:42 PM        Insurance
Quote:
Your new cap for your tooth is not a financial catastrophe. In a more efficient and honest world, you wouldn't even be able to purchase an insurance policy that covers something that incidental. You're bitching cause that damned insurance company won't cover your cap under the copayment, but the thing you don't realize is that your so-called dental insurance is costing you way more money than you'll ever save by having it.

Actually, my company pays the majority of my insurance premium both for dental and medical. Without it, over the last year I would have had to shell out over $8000.00 for dental work and $10000.00 for medical coverage including when my apendix burst. This doesn't include what I would have paid for meds if I didn't have the insurance. For someone who only has $50.00 a month after bills are paid, that is financial ruin.
So please explain to me how I would save more money if I didn't have insurance?

And I am not "bitching" about it. My policy states they are to cover crowns at 80% If that is what they are paid to cover then that is what they should cover. If you pay for something, shouldn't you get what you pay for?
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 01:42 PM       
While you are far more mentally intact than Vinth could ever hope to be, you committed a serious Vinthism.

"How many of you Oh So Concerned and Sensitive citizens actually donate your own money to charities that protect old people from Financial Death due to their age? I see no hands being raised. "

You answered your own question. You need to wait. You know what happens when you assume.

I donate time helping veterans navigate the VA. Time I could be working. That's money. I help them get services from the government. I help them make appointments, get to appointments, acquire and fill out the correct paperwork. Some of them re homeless, so I guess I'm not dooing anything for their financial health. But some of them have small, restricted incomes.

Now, I dislike the baby boomers as much as anyone. I'm not in their socio economic cohort, and I'm not in the next one either. I fall between the two. I see the Baby Boomers as a locust horde who never gve a crapola about anyone but themselves and only give a shit about the elderly now that they're getting elderly.

But do I think that means it's okay for them to suffer? No. I'm anti suffering, even when people bring it on themselves. Do I think society can end suffering? Of course not. But I think we should look after each other as best we can. Like the farmers, or the father of the Prodigal Son.

Now I can totally see why some people disagree. But I don't get why it causes some people to fly into a rage. Vinth will tell you I'm a communist. That's just becuase he doesn't understand many political terms very well. I'm for advocating for the passage of laws, arrived at through representative democracy, that create and maintain a reasonable safety net. I'm also for abidding by existing law while working to change it. That's how I excercise my citizenship.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 01:48 PM       
Ahh... you are one of those that believe your company provides you with benefits at no cost to you then... I see.

Newsflash. Thanks to government meddling in Healthcare (ever heard of COBRA or HIPA?) your health and dental insurance costs your company much more than you would pay for it were you to purchase it on your own. Don't run out and buy your own just yet, though, expecting to be compensated by your employer.

The government has fucked private healthcare insurance. The only kind worth a shit now is employer provided. Without that interference, you'd be able to spend ALL of the money your employer spends on employing you, saving a hell of a lot more than $50 per month.

Similarly, were you to wrest the control of your retirement income from DC, you'd potentially have a lot more than $800/month to look forward to in your waning years...
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 01:58 PM        Insurance
Boy you sure must be a hell of a mind reader to know think. Golly, I had no idea that what my company pays out for insurance for me could have gone into my pocket. But that $180.00 for both medical and dental is hell of a lot less than what I would pay for insurance on my own. See, I've had to pay for health care on my own and I've done it both with and without insurance. I have made the choice to make sure my employer covers it because it is cheaper for them to do it then it is for me.
Interestingly enough, we have the option of taking the dollar value of what they pay for our insurance if we choose to do so. The only ones who do are the ones who have better insurance through their spouse or other source.

And before you ask, I work in HR. I know what is paid out per person.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 02:26 PM       
On Healthcare:

My opinion is that this should be provided for by taxes. Yep, borrow from socialism on this one, because the system works.

First of all, it's the most fair. There are those who can't afford health insurance, whose jobs do not provide it, and need medical attention. It is not their fault that they had a heart attack and that they don't have a decent job because of their 80 IQ.

Second, it'd cheaper overall. Whether you pay for insurance indirectly through your job or directly through you, chances are you will save more money from the taxes increase. I say "chances are" and "overall" because this is not always the case - an example would be those who don't have health insurance anyway, but never have anything seriously wrong with them.

Why would it be cheaper overall? Think about it. Insurance companys are a business. That is, they're goal is to make large amounts of profit. The government has no reason to raise taxes higher than the amount to cover healthcare and pay it's workers; they need no profit. In fact, with the reputation the U.S. has, they wouldn't raise it enough and we'd be in debt.

The only downside is that many workers will be fired as healthcare insurance goes down the tubes and doctors no longer work independantly. But then, the government will surely need to hire those doctors again, and I'm sure that there are plenty of openings that those insurance workers could fill in the new system...

Many times, I wonder why our government does not truly progress. Rather than changing things that are generally beneficial to all, they seem to flip-flop on issues teeming with morals and having vast numbers of people on both sides so that no one will end up happy (abortion anyone?). I'm not sure whether it sickens me, saddens me, angers me, or all at the same time.
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Old Jun 17th, 2003, 02:27 PM       
It's complicated, and I didn't really expect you to fuly get it the first go round...

I’m not really a mind reader, so for the sake of simplicity we’ll speak hypothetically. Let’s say your company produces widgets for profit. Any money diverted from the income derived from your companies sales of widgets, say to employ HR people to manage employee benefits and whatnot, is a loss no matter how much you wish to sugar-coat it or “Yes, but…” me. Remember: indirect profit is still a financial loss. It’s just managed better. Your department doesn’t directly profit your company. You are a conceded loss to your employer. Thanks for playing.

You are obviously not considering the total cost of your company’s entitlement programs, both financial and human. Think it through again, looking at the big picture, and if you have further questions, file a lawsuit against the college you attended.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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